Alabama Baptist Covers Collinsville Baptists 175th

[Sandy]

So, it is Monday December 5. I haven't seen any news headlines this morning with a dateline of Collinsville, Alabama, but I'm curious. Did you go? And what happened?

[KeithE]

So, it is Monday December 5. I haven't seen any news headlines this morning with a dateline of Collinsville, Alabama, but I'm curious. Did you go? And what happened?

Yeah and I'm curious also.

And if you didn't go, it is not too late for a little reconciliation this season.

[Stephen Fox]

Maybe more after Christmas as the Spirit leads

I did not attend. The weather and last minute logistical complications weakened my desire to attend. Had it been Friday evening I think I woulda gone because I was full of the spirit, the Holy Spirit then.

This was not a feint.

I left a message for the pastor and texted a deacon setting a low bar, would they press charges If I showed up at this "community event." I had the backing of several folks in the community including one family distantly related by marriage to former SBC News man Wilmer C. Fields who had my back, said if anybody asked, I was their guests. They belong to another church, Not CBC.

I never got a reply from the deak nor the preach.

I did not go.

[William Thornton]

To Stephen's credit, he did the right thing, asked. It was rude and unchristian not to give him a response even if the answer was 'no.'

[Stephen Fox]

Thanks William

I made a post on Facebook and even a good friend from High School who later befriended Lee Atwater came to my defense with a robust comment.

And a cousin whose Grandmother for many years lived in the house in Collinsville where Pastor Morgan and his wife live now across from the Methodist Church on Grand Valley Avenue aka HWY 11 in Collinsville.

Many people sent their encouragement by texts.

The lack of a reply was not the deciding factor.

I was part of a glorious community cantata in 2000 directed by the minister's son John III. Mart Gray, then CEO of the state's CBF was in the choir with us and I starred in a skit and a quartet with the minister's wife in addition to being a key voice in a 40 odd member "choir"

Much thanks to the Auburn grads, a Gideon family, who were gracious to volunteer to be my community sponsor had they been brought before the tribunal had I attended.

[Haruo]

To Stephen's credit, he did the right thing, asked. It was rude and unchristian not to give him a response even if the answer was 'no.'

I agree. I think at some point I will call the church and (not naming names) say that a friend of mine was saddened (my interpretation, not anything Stephen has said) when he asked if he could come to the community Christmas event at CBC and neither the pastor nor a deacon he asked would give him an answer. See if I can get an apology out of them at least.

[Stephen Fox]

To Stephen's credit, he did the right thing, asked. It was rude and unchristian not to give him a response even if the answer was 'no.'

I agree. I think at some point I will call the church and (not naming names) say that a friend of mine was saddened (my interpretation, not anything Stephen has said) when he asked if he could come to the community Christmas event at CBC and neither the pastor nor a deacon he asked would give him an answer. See if I can get an apology out of them at least.

The number for the church, public number is 256-524-2367

I made it plain for day one that if the pastor, his wife Gloria, Sandra Killian and Jennifer Wilkins woulda met with me and Donnie Mac and Jackie Myers and Martha Barksdale, the matriarch of the community and church since Mary Katherine Reed passed away; none of this woulda ever evolved to this point. Basically it was always some differences between me and these five women and the preacher that got blown up all out of proportion by phone trees and my activity here on this board which at one time included the pastors son mark and the Alliance Defending Freedom's Casey Mattox a devotee of the pastor and Francis Schaeffer like the pastor and his wife.

My testimony is in Exiled Generations published by U Tenn Press. I do not know if the librarian Wilkins has acquired a copy for the local library to this date or not. I know she was averse to John Grisham's Oxford American 12 years ago though subscription was taken care of for the first year, and that became part of the contention.

[Sandy]

Maybe more after Christmas as the Spirit leads

I did not attend. The weather and last minute logistical complications weakened my desire to attend. Had it been Friday evening I think I woulda gone because I was full of the spirit, the Holy Spirit then.

This was not a feint.

I left a message for the pastor and texted a deacon setting a low bar, would they press charges If I showed up at this "community event." I had the backing of several folks in the community including one family distantly related by marriage to former SBC News man Wilmer C. Fields who had my back, said if anybody asked, I was their guests. They belong to another church, Not CBC.

I never got a reply from the deak nor the preach.

I did not go.

That's too bad. I agree, you did the right thing by calling, though I think since it was a community event, going as a guest of someone who wasn't a member of that church would have been fine. Sorry you had to miss the service.

[Stephen Fox]

https://baptistnews.com/article/former- ... FCSEhGYYdU

[Stephen Fox]

You can listen to me in reference to Collinsville and Jeff Sessions Alabama in the last five minutes of the NPR 1a program Jan 12, A Thursday.

Also see my blog on Sonny Liston and Condi Rice

http://the1a.org/shows/2017-01-12/tense ... n-hearings

[Stephen Fox]

https://baptistnews.com/article/baptist ... IfDoI-cEdV

Becky is a native of Collinsville of the HS class of 83. She studied with Molly Marshall at Southern Seminary and is now a chaplain at Baylor. At Baylor she became a friend of new Furman President Elizabeth Davis.

In early 90s she was on staff for a while at Collinsville Baptist Church as choir director while a student at Jax State and Samford. She was great HS friends with Jennifer Wilkins, now the local librarian hardwired to Mark Wilson's Auburn University Democracy Project. Wilson chaired the Pastor Search Committee at FBC Auburn which brought in the current pastor.

Becky marched in Waco on Saturday in solidarity with other Baptist women who have concerns about the Trump administration and how he came to power, Robert Jeffress, Francis Schaeffer etc.

[Sandy]

Nice pickup on the link there, Stephen. Here's another that Baptist Global picked up.

https://thinkprogress.org/trump-is-crea ... .rgk79jfqh

Evangelicals have sold their soul for political expediency, and have been exposed for the most part as promoters of the false religion of Christian Nationalism, a major departure from Biblical Christianity. I'm wondering if this will cause people to take a look at the mainline churches again, or whether this undermines institutional Christian churches and faith expression, and a "confessing church" with a whole different appearance emerges. Perhaps, as the emergent Christian movement adapts and adjusts to what is happening, it will find a way to be the prophetic voice of God in the culture.

[Stephen Fox]

Little of a stretch here I concede, but the interview with author Frankel on new book about the classic Oscar Western on NPR Fresh Air last week was fascinating. The Description of the church service, well lot of similarities to my ordeal with Collinsville Baptist.

One of the pastor's son took a course on film at UVA and another sought counsel with Willimon at Duke. One of them with myself are founders of the Collinsville Film Society.

If I win the Lottery, I will arrange for the author to come to the Cricket Theatre in Collinsville with new light Marquee--see my apotheosis blog--and all who have read the book and listened to the interview will get free tickets, if Martha okays it.

At Berry College the Homecoming weekend is now known at Marthapalooza, but its a different Martha.

[Stephen Fox]

on a facebook post about some Collinsville history. She said:

Just to clear things up........Jennifer Wilkins did not get Mr. Fox Voted out of the Collinsville Baptist Church..........He did that all by himself.

[Stephen Fox]

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/closing-the- ... -cms-23986

Colin Harris was a grand friend of my Dad's from the days David Bookout had him as camp counselor for a youth Group from Druid Hills Church in Atlanta in the early 60s.

Here Harris speaks to the mindset I was up against at Collinsville Baptist.

[Stephen Fox]

I talk about Simmons a former proff of Cvl Pastor John Morgan at SBTS, in my testimony in The Exiled Generations and how I mentioned Simmons in a very tense moment in Sunday School class while the pastor was pontificating about abortion. Deacon Chair Brad Barksdale was present and he and the pastor had a chat that resulted in my silencing the next Sunday.

Simmons chimes in the responses to Leroy Seat's blog today on Oscar Romero

https://theviewfromthisseat.blogspot.co ... oscar.html

In Collinsville I am well acquainted with a friend who has settled here from El Salvador, who as a young boy on separate occasions saw both Romero and Daubuisson in the flesh.

[Stephen Fox]

Ms Smith Wilkins is spotlighted in the annual Cemetery Preservation letter as featured speaker for this years event. It says she was born at Erlanger Hospital in Chattanooga and is one of the Three Smith sisters.

Annual notice also features three Civil War vets buried in the cemetery one Henry Rufus Jordan a cousin of my Great Grandfather. Tyler Coker is renovating his brother Didamus home, Cousin Didd, on hwy 11. Best Jordan history is Henry served with the Union. the Vidette regiment of North Alabama and SE Tennessee along with my great Grandfather James Sanders Jordan.

Letter also spotlights an Appleton, an ancestor of Jon Appleton, pastor emeritus of FBC Athens Ga and a CBFfer of first degree. One of Jon's distant cousins, Will Appleton was sought by Yale as a Quarterback but is going to Auburn to pursue his football dreams there.

His Dad and that Appleton branch are members of Highlands Baptist Church, the Gadsden campus, one of fourteen, where gerrymandering state senator and ordained Baptist minister Phil Williams is influential minister.

[Stephen Fox]

Sunday May the 14 was the 121st anniversary of Decoration Day at Collinsville Cemetery just behind the High School. My Mother and Father, Grandmother and Grandfather Jordan and several cousins are buried on the grounds.

About 17 people were present for the official service. I had a brief chat with a fellow who played football for both Bear Bryant and Bobby Bowden, was Present when Wallace stood in the school house door and knows Wayne Atchison who now works at the Billy Graham Museum in Charlotte, NC.

Ms Jennifer Smith Wilkins, key person in my ouster from the Collinsville Baptist Church, whose father's name is etched in stone on the Cornerstone of the Church was the key speaker for the day. Her family tale was colorful to say the least. She spoke mostly about her father, didn't say a whole lot about her cousins at the Shed nor did she mention her brief employment with Jaime Red Etheridge who came to Collinsville in late 80s after a notable stay with George Wallace's second Administration.

Etheridge ran for Lt. Gov in 78. Now a trustee of Jax St. he once told me he remembers as a boy in Greenville, Alabama, Barbour County or close to it, his Pastor often spoke of George Truett.

I may come back to this later. Wilkins told the story of the firecracker and her Uncle Gene who went through a plate glass window as Captain Marvel, Her 6'4" 240 pound father who married her 5'2" Mother--a Gaines whose brother was a doctor in Tennessee--and the tragic car accident that took her life on Halloween Night in 1971. Her two sisters sustained serious injuries in the crash and were in Erlanger in Chattanooga for several days.

As an example of her Dad's self discipline said Gerald quit smoking "stone cold Turkey" when Dr. Perdoma showed him the xray of his lungs several years before he passed.

Gerald was born in 25, three years younger than my Mother and they played in the same High School band. He died turn of the 21st Century best I remember. He was an usher for many years at the Baptist church and sat in the back with the Myers boys and sometimes Johnny Hamiter and talked about Alabama football during the sermon often retiring the Overstreet Room for Brides at Weddings.

Said Gerald wasn't much on the "niceties" for domestic resolutions. Whether that is a genetic trait Ms Wilkins inherited with her penchant for Kangaroo courts and church politics, Need to think on that further.

I do know she allegedly had a conversation in 2006 with Bruce Gourley of this board re a conversation I had with Bonnie Payne, now deceased, then Ms. Wilkins right hand assistant.

It was a beautiful day. We said the Pledge of Allegiance. At the end Smith Wilkins and her sister Sheila sang Will The Circle Be Unbroken for Benediction.

By that time I was halfway down the hill getting in the car to find some cable tv lookin for Jeter day at Yankee Stadium and the repeat of the Nadal Thiem match at Madrid.

[Stephen Fox]

It was 11 years ago today I went down 32-20. The ending process was a fiasco. I was given three months notice to talk to the deacons which was a non starter to begin with because most of them were acting on hearsay. Jennifer Wilkins, Gloria Morgan, Nessa and possibly Sandra Killian and Mother Zulker were the problem. I always let it be known I was open to talk to them but they played the phone trees.

The vote itself was ridiculous. More than half the congregation had no clue what the grievance was at all, and there had to be a vote to let me speak. I was given 7 minutes, then Jennifer's sister Sheila spoke against me. About three years earlier she told a small bible Study group she hated me. The Deacons were in a fog going on what the women above were feeding them and their interpretation of stuff I was saying on this board, a lot out of contexts. Neither deacon to my knowledge were following conversations on this board.

So it was ridiculous, the Library Kangaroo court and the Vote to kick me out of the church where my Mother was baptized. Pressler's sky boxxes and Adrian Rogers demagoguery nor the Ridgecrest Inerrancy Conference coulda done a crazier job at the micro level than the women above were able to create in Collinsville Alabama.

For more, find my chapter in Carl Kell's Exiled Generations. You can find a copy locally in the Ft Payne Library, but I don't think Jennifer Wilkins in all her conversations with Mark Wilson of FBC Auburn has been able to bring herself to providing that resource in the Collinsville Library, putting it on the shelf for local scholars to consider

[William Thornton]

So, where do you worship these days?

[Sandy]

I realize there are many sentimental feelings associated with events in local churches, as Stephen mentions in talking about the church where his momma was baptized. I have a little bit of an understanding of how that feels. My parents, along with about half the congregation of the church in which I grew up, walked out after a very contentious business meeting after being invited to do so by a dictatorial pastor. My mom loved that church, and served for years as its hostess, organizing hundreds of pot luck dinners, refreshments for VBS, wedding receptions and mission dinners. When she passed away two years later, having her funeral in a different location was strange, especially driving past on the way to her burial plot in the cemetery directly behind the church. My Dad also loved and served that church as a deacon, a trustee, and chaired the pulpit committee that called the pastor who eventually issued his "my way or the highway moratorium." By the time he passed away, it was different, but still a bit strange when his procession passed the church on its way into the same cemetery.

It wasn't spiritually healthy to dwell on sentiments. Surely, even in back'ards Rick and Bubba country, there are a couple of churches in Collinsville that would provide a warm welcome and a compatible atmosphere, an Episcopalian church, perhaps, or D of C, or Methodist. If I lived in that part of the country, and had a similar experience, I'd head to the other side of the tracks and find an African American Baptist church to join.

[Jim]

It was 11 years ago today I went down 32-20. The ending process was a fiasco. I was given three months notice to talk to the deacons which was a non starter to begin with because most of them were acting on hearsay. Jennifer Wilkins, Gloria Morgan, Nessa and possibly Sandra Killian and Mother Zulker were the problem. I always let it be known I was open to talk to them but they played the phone trees.

The vote itself was ridiculous. More than half the congregation had no clue what the grievance was at all, and there had to be a vote to let me speak. I was given 7 minutes, then Jennifer's sister Sheila spoke against me. About three years earlier she told a small bible Study group she hated me. The Deacons were in a fog going on what the women above were feeding them and their interpretation of stuff I was saying on this board, a lot out of contexts. Neither deacon to my knowledge were following conversations on this board.

So it was ridiculous, the Library Kangaroo court and the Vote to kick me out of the church where my Mother was baptized. Pressler's sky boxxes and Adrian Rogers demagoguery nor the Ridgecrest Inerrancy Conference coulda done a crazier job at the micro level than the women above were able to create in Collinsville Alabama.

For more, find my chapter in Carl Kell's Exiled Generations. You can find a copy locally in the Ft Payne Library, but I don't think Jennifer Wilkins in all her conversations with Mark Wilson of FBC Auburn has been able to bring herself to providing that resource in the Collinsville Library, putting it on the shelf for local scholars to consider

I occasionally surf by to see how the arguments rage but have been aware for years of the Collinsville massacre since Foxy has vented his spleen on the matter in this Forum, not that it rises to crisis- management or even universal interest, not to mention the affairs of either state or religion in general. His accounts mean nothing because no one, at least to my knowledge (spotty, admittedly), has heard from the folks on the other side of the story, whether library- or church-related or both. There are at least two sides to every argument so hearing only one side means absolutely nothing. At any rate, petty church squabbles are nothing new (or even all-out “wars” resulting in church-splits. So, what’s the big deal about Collinsville?

[Haruo]

Well, it's central to Stephen's life story. Imagine you were deported on trumped-up grounds (say, someone faked your birth certificate in some foreign land and ICE and the courts believed them and not you). Wouldn't you spend a lot of the rest of your life trying to draw attention to the injustice even though most of the US and the world had never heard of you?

[Jim]

Just as I surmise that no one in this Forum is particularly interested in my life story, I logically presume that no one is that caught up in Stephen’s. Name and serial number are considered all that’s necessary in a soldier’s life story if he’s captured or even just transferred from one post to another, ergo, not much more than that seems necessary here, though maybe location and communication-information could have some importance. Perhaps things would be different in the extant case if this Forum, upon appeal, could effect an investigation and even a solution if one is needed for what Stephen considers an injustice by his former church. This is improbable. The facts of the matter from Foxy’s viewpoint have been rendered maybe hundreds of times over the years but I doubt that the “other side” would even consider a Forum subpoena, so that would seem to be the end of the matter. Since I am certain that actually all of the U.S. and the rest of the world have never heard of me (or Stephen or you), I would not be interested in drawing attention to (gasp) all those traffic tickets or other injustices I have suffered.

[Sandy]

Just as I surmise that no one in this Forum is particularly interested in my life story, I logically presume that no one is that caught up in Stephen’s. Name and serial number are considered all that’s necessary in a soldier’s life story if he’s captured or even just transferred from one post to another, ergo, not much more than that seems necessary here, though maybe location and communication-information could have some importance. Perhaps things would be different in the extant case if this Forum, upon appeal, could effect an investigation and even a solution if one is needed for what Stephen considers an injustice by his former church. This is improbable. The facts of the matter from Foxy’s viewpoint have been rendered maybe hundreds of times over the years but I doubt that the “other side” would even consider a Forum subpoena, so that would seem to be the end of the matter. Since I am certain that actually all of the U.S. and the rest of the world have never heard of me (or Stephen or you), I would not be interested in drawing attention to (gasp) all those traffic tickets or other injustices I have suffered.

Stephen's narrative runs from the Collinsville Baptist Church to the First Baptist Church of Spartanburg, SC through Gaffney, SC, past Black Mountain, Montreat and Billy Graham, the John Birch Society, Marshall Frady, Greenville, SC and Furman, his alma mater, through Religion Dispatches, and several books, including Molly Worthen's Apostles of Reason and Wuthnow's Rough Country which get frequent citations. The dots get connected to the "fundamentalist takeover of the Southern Baptist Convention." Somewhere, in all of those conversations that he connects and I can't follow is the discussion and the fateful trip to the Collinsville Liberry that eventually led to his getting churched. Yeah, the other side hasn't had an opportunity to respond, and probably wouldn't care about a discussion here anyway. But participating here is a choice. Sometimes I choose to respond, sometimes I don't, sometimes I agree with Stephen, at least in principle, and sometimes I don't. And while I'm sure his story carries his own perspective, I can guess that the atmosphere inside a mid-sized, Southern Baptist church in a small town in Alabama is probably pretty common across the SBC in thousands of similar churches. In recent years, that gives Stephen a level of credibility as far as his story about his churching experience goes. I'll admit, I'm biased when it comes to closed circle, spiritually inbred SBC churches infused with right wing extremist politics. They're willing to abandon principle to have their way, and they can't tolerate anyone who doesn't think like they do. So they tossed him and banned him from the property. Neither of those actions will help them accomplish their mission and purpose, and their membership's aging and decline will most likely not be changed as a result of this action. But they won't have to listen to an uncomfortable difference of opinion. If you're not interested, don't read his posts.

Personally, I have a preference for the kind of conservative theology that most Southern Baptists seem comfortable with, but I'm not comfortable crowding that out, along with the church's mission and purpose, with a right wing extremist position that isn't consistent with that theology, and support for candidates whose character is the antithesis of it. I think Stephen should start to enjoy his being set free from the Collinsville Baptist Church and its narrow minded religious bigotry.