Moderator: William Thornton
Well, sad to say, the reports are swirling that the FBC Jacksonville deacons were told Monday night 2/23 that the person who has been accused of owning this blog - the man that A.C. "Anti-Criticism" Soud was piously denouncing in his edict last Wednesday - was accused in the meeting of:
- stalking or photographing or filming Mrs. Brunson while she was jogging;
- stealing, or reading the Brunson's mail or email; and
- and that the church obtained a court order from a judge to allow them to force Google and/or Comcast to tell them the name of the owner/administrator of this blog.
He [FBCJax Watchdog] told me his compelling story, details of which are startling, because he said he trusted me.
According to a former staff member at First Baptist Church, Jacksonville, Debbie Brunson, an IMB trustee herself at the time, told the staff at FBC Jacksonville that I was promoting the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship and was a liberal. Debbie was herself an IMB trustee leader at the time, but never approached me personally about any of her concerns. Yet, she felt comfortable talking to members of her own staff about me in order to seek to make the issue about me personally and not the questions I was asking
I called FBC Jacksonville last Friday and will be calling the church at 10:00 a.m. in the morning to speak with both Pastor Brunson and Mrs. Brunsons if she is available. The purpose of the phone call is to ask them several questions that pertain to a very specific post about that will go up later this week.
However, it is my belief that there has risen a culture in the SBC, reinforced by training received at many of our seminaries (not all), that emphasizes pastoral authority and seeks to convince people that they are not to "touch the Lord's anointed." It's as if some leaders in the SBC expect to be treated as kings, and everyones' calling in life is to serve the king and tell him how wonderful he is. CHRISTIAN ministry should be just the opposite.
William Thornton wrote:FBC Jax doesn't seem to have dealt with it wisely.
Steve Wilcox wrote:William Thornton wrote:FBC Jax doesn't seem to have dealt with it wisely.
Sure they have.
The bloggers are the fools.
Steve Wilcox wrote:William Thornton wrote:FBC Jax doesn't seem to have dealt with it wisely.
Sure they have.
The bloggers are the fools.
Timothy Bonney wrote:I think everyone is going to have to live with the fact (sometimes for good and sometimes for ill) that anyone can create a blog and pretty much say anything that is on their mind about anything. It isn't always wise. It isn't always right. But, that's the way it is. And, FBCJax isn't going to get that genie back in the bottle. You can pass 100 resolutions telling church members that they have to agree to give up their legal rights but, in a court of law I'm willing to bet that none of them would be binding.
One example of this is that we have parents sign release forms when youth go on trips. But, I have it under good legal counsel that this in no way saves the church from being sued if the youth leadership were to do something unsafe or inappropriate because the parents have a reasonable expectation that when they sign a release we'll take good care of their kids. If we don't no release will keep us from being sued.
Ed Pettibone wrote:Steve Wilcox wrote:William Thornton wrote:FBC Jax doesn't seem to have dealt with it wisely.
Sure they have.
The bloggers are the fools.
Ed: Matthew 5:22 (New International Version)
22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother[a]will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,[b]' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.
William Thornton wrote:FBC Jax doesn't seem to have dealt with it wisely.
Sure they have.
The bloggers are the fools.
If you read the blog you will see the anger and contempt is coming from the bloggers. Go tell them about it Ed.
I also spoke with someone involved with the finances of the church and was also on the pulpit committee about the bloggers concerns.
William Thornton wrote:To be fair on this, most of the info coming out of FBCJax is from the watchdog blog, part of the reason for my saying that the church and pastor has handled this poorly. The church should have been completely open and transparent with their members about pastor pay, employment of family, gifts to the pastor, by-law changes and other things. Instead, they have stonewalled and exercised some degree of heavy- and ham-handedness in the whole process.
Nonetheless, Steve Wilcox is far closer to the situation than anyone else here and his opinion counter to mine and others is certainly welcome. My opinion is that he has some blind spots with respect to the church and pastor's behavior. I am unaware of any facts put out by watchdog that have been found to be untruthful. The guy is harsh in his opinion and some of his issues do not have the importance that he gives to them.
But Steve, you said:I also spoke with someone involved with the finances of the church and was also on the pulpit committee about the bloggers concerns.
What was the question and what were the answers that had to do with church finances?
What was the answer you got from the person on the pulpit committee?
Steve Wilcox wrote:William, I am not sure what makes you think I am going to post that on this forum.
I am not posting responses I received to my questions due to the friendship I have with the person I asked and the way the bloggers will cut and paste it from here then post it on their blog and then proceed to dissect it, alter it and act as if they got no answers or there is some kind of consipiracy to "fleece the church".
William Thornton wrote:I didn't think you would and wouldn't expect you to if your conversation was private and needed to be kept private; however, this illustrates part of the church's problem. If you stonewall and hide things, people assume more than the worst. Why any church would not be transparent with their own members is a mystery to me.
FBCJax Watchdog would be defanged in ten minutes if the church were open and transparent rather than (what appears to be) closed and vindictive towards members who have questions.
Steve Wilcox wrote:How do you respond to anonymous people?
Steve Wilcox wrote:Ex. #1- They were questioning the salary of the pastor. They eventually got their answer, but then changed it to questioning his compensation package.![]()
Ex. #2 - They were told the land was given to the pastor out of love (as stated on the deed). Then they question why he took it and why he still lives there. Then question his integrity and character.![]()
William Thornton wrote:I would prefer if both of you would take your dispute private. The only reason the FBC Jax thing is on this forum is because it represents a new arena for church conflict. Some condemn the blogging. Some say it has merit because of the failures of the church to provide appropriate avenues for dispute resolution and feedback. You've both made your points. Let's move along.
I agree that the last word hasn't been heard from FBCJ.
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