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Re: FBC Jax Calls for Sever of Ties to Lifeway Over "The Shack"

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:54 pm
by Haruo
ET wrote:
Haruo wrote:Wait a minute, does The Shack actually say God is a lesbian? That's what Smyrl implies, and that's much more inflammatory than God as "a big, black woman" (as ET or someone hereabove said).

Haruo, I haven't made any comments on this thread, but since you brought me into it, I will.

Thanks for the input, ET. I may just read this one. Hopefully won't have to patronize Lifeway to get it (with any luck the public library will have it). Sorry about the mixup, it was Shortandy, not you, that had written what I quoted. I copy-pasted the snippet without even memorizing the poster's name... I'll try to slow down in such cases. ;-)

Re: FBC Jax Calls for Sever of Ties to Lifeway Over "The Shack"

PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:34 am
by Shortandy
Haruo wrote:
Shortandy wrote:Personally I think its more about he money than the theology for lifeway anyway. The Shack has a been on top of their sales list for a while now.

As to the theolgy....I don't like it. God as a big black woman, the Spirit as a little asian girl. Clearly those are not found in scripture and therefore they are theologically off. I thik the book (maybe not on purpose) facilitates improper thinking, and respect for God.

However, why pick on one book? There are many on the lifeway shelves that a lot of SBC members probably don't like.

Put yourself for the moment in the situation of a pious, God-fearing Jew in the early Christian centuries, hearing about the crazy and profane notions in the gospels as propounded by the Christians: God as the infant human child of an unwed mother they say was a virgin? Who grew up to be executed for crossing state lines to incite riot—hanged on a tree in a way that the Scriptures clearly say condemned him? And the Spirit of God as another God "person" who is the same God?

Doesn't it ever occur to Christians in this day and age that if the truth is a stumbling block to the Jews and nonsense to the pagans, it might also be something other than we imagine and quite objectionable in principle to us? Now we see through a glass darkly, folks.



You are comparing apples to oranges which makes this argument for the shack a strawman at best. For the scripture is truth....maybe truth that we through dark glasses but still truth. God is not a big black woman. The Spirit is not a little asian girl and to paint God in this light goes against what is in the text of scripture.

Re: FBC Jax Calls for Sever of Ties to Lifeway Over "The Shack"

PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:43 am
by Neil Heath
Shortandy wrote:...God is not a big black woman. The Spirit is not a little asian girl and to paint God in this light goes against what is in the text of scripture.


True, indeed. God is not human, neither male nor female, and probably any terms we use to describe God will be inaccurate at best. But God has revealed Godself to us in human form once, and I'm certainly not going to say God can't do it again in any way God chooses. We don't need another Savior, but that doesn't mean God hasn't walked among us in human likeness for other purposes since then. How would we know?

Neil

Re: FBC Jax Calls for Sever of Ties to Lifeway Over "The Shack"

PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:46 am
by Shortandy
Neil Heath wrote:
Shortandy wrote:...God is not a big black woman. The Spirit is not a little asian girl and to paint God in this light goes against what is in the text of scripture.


True, indeed. God is not human, neither male nor female, and probably any terms we use to describe God will be inaccurate at best. But God has revealed Godself to us in human form once, and I'm certainly not going to say God can't do it again in any way God chooses. We don't need another Savior, but that doesn't mean God hasn't walked among us in human likeness for other purposes since then. How would we know?

Neil


Neil we are moving past what we do know into the theoretical. I guess I can go write a fiction book (the shack is fiction) and call The Father a dog and so on. It just seems disrespectful to God. Let us call Him what we know Him to be.

Re: FBC Jax Calls for Sever of Ties to Lifeway Over "The Shack"

PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:48 pm
by Neil Heath
Shortandy wrote:
Neil Heath wrote:
Shortandy wrote:...God is not a big black woman. The Spirit is not a little asian girl and to paint God in this light goes against what is in the text of scripture.


True, indeed. God is not human, neither male nor female, and probably any terms we use to describe God will be inaccurate at best. But God has revealed Godself to us in human form once, and I'm certainly not going to say God can't do it again in any way God chooses. We don't need another Savior, but that doesn't mean God hasn't walked among us in human likeness for other purposes since then. How would we know?

Neil


Neil we are moving past what we do know into the theoretical. I guess I can go write a fiction book (the shack is fiction) and call The Father a dog and so on. It just seems disrespectful to God. Let us call Him what we know Him to be.


True, we need to deal with what we do know, but it's hard not to wonder what else God is doing. I'm pretty sure God is currently getting the credit/blame for plenty of things not actually of God's doing...like some Christian music, for example. :)

Notice, in the spirit of my first post I didn't refer to God as He/Him. It's hard to avoid doing it, but it helps to remind me that God is unlike us, in a category of God's own. :)

NH

Re: FBC Jax Calls for Sever of Ties to Lifeway Over "The Shack"

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:45 am
by Cathy
I was interested to read (in Jesus Creed) that Roger Olsen has written a book about the theology in The Shack. Interesting. I thought that Rick's comment below (Scot McKnight's review of a book that is a review of a book) was right on.

http://blog.beliefnet.com/jesuscreed/20 ... shack.html

Re: FBC Jax Calls for Sever of Ties to Lifeway Over "The Shack"

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:18 pm
by Haruo
Shortandy wrote:...God is not a big black woman. The Spirit is not a little asian girl and to paint God in this light goes against what is in the text of scripture.
God is not a Jewish carpenter or a nameless wrestler in a campground, either. God is God. If The Shack teaches as doctrine that God is a big black woman and only a big black woman, then that is wrong; but it doesn't teach doctrine, it's fiction, and as far as I can tell it doesn't say "God is what I have experienced God as and NOT what you have experienced God as".

Cathy, thanks for the Olson review. I think I will read the book...

Re: FBC Jax Calls for Sever of Ties to Lifeway Over "The Shack"

PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:55 pm
by Chris
William Thornton wrote:A few people in my church have the Shack. One is a virulent critic. The others don't seem to like it.


Our church library (North Riverside Baptist, Newport News, Va) has three copies, and a waiting list to check them out.

Re: FBC Jax Calls for Sever of Ties to Lifeway Over "The Shack"

PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:27 pm
by Sandy
Perhaps a motion should be brought to the floor of the convention to sever ties with FBC Jax for gross violations of scripture by their pastor. Using the court system to resolve church problems is certainly a violation of the 2000 BFM at some point, isn't it?

Re: FBC Jax Calls for Sever of Ties to Lifeway Over "The Shack"

PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:36 am
by Chris
SLyons wrote:Jim Smyrl, the Executive Pastor of Education at FBC Jacksonville (http://www.fbcjax.com), has called on the SBC to sever ties to Lifeway unless they ban books that don't meet his theological approval. Jim says the average baptist church member does not have training in "critical thinking" and thus is not capable of "filtering bad theology", and thus should not be reading books like "The Shack", and thus Lifeway should not be selling them.


Then Lifeway should stop selling the "Left Behind" series also.

Re: FBC Jax Calls for Sever of Ties to Lifeway Over "The Shack"

PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:47 pm
by Gary
As a literary exercise, go back through this entire thread and replace "The Shack" with "Pilgrim's Progress".

There will be hurdles to overcome, characters to transpose, but try that out as a point of departure.

PP is not a Systematic treatise either (I'm note equating the books) - the are both fiction by allegory. Read them that way, please.

Gary

Re: FBC Jax Calls for Sever of Ties to Lifeway Over "The Shack"

PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:04 am
by David Flick
Chris wrote:Then Lifeway should stop selling the "Left Behind" series also.

Chris, I wouldn't know what Lifeway stores are selling these days... Haven't been into one in five years...

Re: FBC Jax Calls for Sever of Ties to Lifeway Over "The Shack"

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:33 am
by David Flick
Timothy Bonney wrote:
David Flick wrote:
Chris wrote:Then Lifeway should stop selling the "Left Behind" series also.

Chris, I wouldn't know what Lifeway stores are selling these days... Haven't been into one in five years...


Aren't they the group that took over the Baptist Bookstores in a hostile takeover David? (J/K TIC)

I believe so... :D