FBC Jax declaring war on Roman Catholics?

[William Thornton]

[Haruo]

Mrs Haruo and I attended the community interfaith thanksgiving service this afternoon at St. Patrick's Catholic Church; not only were representatives of the Catholic cult present, but also spokespersons for the Zen Buddhist cult, the Progressive National Baptist Cult, the Judaistic cult, several indigenous American cults, the Muslim cult, and a cookie-baker who is a member of the Bahá'í cult (but she had baked cookies from recipes deriving from, I guess, Unitarianism). Great stuff.

Actually, historically within Catholicism and in the scholarly study of religion, "cult" is not a dirty word. In particular, it is appropriately used of the practices associated with the veneration of the BVM, the "Marian cult" (see e.g. or )...

By allowing the history of Jonestown etc. to debase this term, we give in to the terrorists. IMHO.

[Haruo]

[Big Daddy Weaver]

What can an educated person really say in response to one who calls the Catholic Church a cult?

[Mrs Haruo]

Where is this guy getting his information? The National Enquirer? It never fails to amaze me how ignorant some people can be, and the fact that this nonsense is being put forth from this church is , well, words fail me, so
It makes me very embarrassed to call myself Baptist, I can tell you that much, but I am just a woman, so what do I know?????? This sort of jaw-dropping stupidity and ignorance makes me so angry- this is the sort of baloney cheese that drove my father away from any kind of organized religion.

[SLyons]

William - let's give credit where credit is due.

Smyrl is not just a guy on the education staff. He has been described on certain FBC Jax blogs as the pastor's "second in command". He is the preacher who preaches when Brunson is not there. He is not just some guy on staff, but is the MOST influential staff member at FBC Jax, who is shaping the entire ministry direction of FBC Jax with his "Theology Driven Ministry" model. The pastor there has given Smyrl free reign to institute TDM in every area of the church, including transforming the FBC Jax Sunday School into "small groups" - with the pastor angrily preaching that "...you have got to get this" in reference to small groups.

And let it be said: not only is Smyrl using the inflammatory word "cult" to describe Catholics, in a November 14th post at the OFFICIAL BLOG SITE OF FBC JACKSONVILLE () the guy takes a slap at Catholic priests by calling them "cult leaders", a term reserved normally in our culture for the likes of Jim Jones, David Koresh, and Charles Manson. He also in this November 14th post he agrees with the SC priest in principle (but not theology?) in the priest telling Obama votes they are not fit for communion, and then goes on to state that Obama voters committed a sin that they must repent of, and that their vote perhaps "voted them out of fellowship" (the title of his Nov 14th post).

Fun times at FBC Jax!

[Haruo]

I don't see any place to register in order to post a comment. Is it limited to FBCJAX members, or what? When I try to log in using my WordPress Login and Password, it tells me there's no such user.

I wanted to ask about the "grid".

[William Thornton]

Not much in Part 1...not that I expected to find much.

It may be a members only thing, Haruo. You might could email him.

[SLyons]

[Jerry_B]

Strange happenings in Jacksonville for sure. Though to be honest, why are we so surprised, fundamentalist churches have been preaching this stuff for years and years. Jerry Vines was beloved by the neo-fundamentalists* of the independent baptist ilk and even promoted his Pastor's Conference. FBC-Jack may have been SBC on the inside, but it is and has been hard-core fundamentalist on the inside.

*neo-fundamentalist - those independent baptists who are very conservative in their theology, yet don't use only the King James, are willing to work with some select SBC churches and have gotten over the whole women can't wear pants thing.

[JaneFordA]

[Steve Wilcox]

From Part 1 of Jim's series...

"Brooks Alexander, co-founder of the Spiritual Counterfeits Project, notes that a cult has a false or inadequate basis of salvation and/or a false basis authority. Danny Akin lists four criteria of a cult that includes Alexander’s criteria. These four will be used for our analysis.

1. ADDITION
Books equal to the Bible either as corrections or additions.
2. SUBTRACTION
Either from Christ’s perfect Divinity or His perfect Humanity, so He is either not God or not sinless.
3. MULTIPLICATION
Of the paths to salvation, bringing in adherence to variant and extra-biblical steps, usually in allegiance to the movement. Salvation is not by grace but continuing works.
4. DIVISION
Of the Body of Christ, so they are the only group through which man can be saved. Allegiance is usually to a particular leader."

Jim is laying the foundation for the definition of a cult.

1. Catholics have done this.
2. Catholics have NOT done this.
3. Catholics have done this.
4. Catholics have done this.

Note what I underlined in the quote above.

Catholics believe you must do good works to maintain your salvation and that sin causes one to lose your salvation.

Their basis of authority is the Pope and Papal Infallibility (declared by a Pope).

Some background on me. I was raised Catholic, attended Catholic school from K-5 through 12, was an altar boy for five years and looked up to the priests of my church. My best friend is a born-again Catholic. And yes he and I have had many discussions on these subjects.

I disagree with Papal infallibility, baptism and first communion before salvation, the adoration of Mary, that one must be Catholic to be in the church of God, losing your salvation, any works to gain or maintain my salvation and their form of church of government.

That being said, they do teach Jesus Christ is the Son of God and is the ONLY way to God and to heaven.

[SLyons]

[William Thornton]

Steve, do you know Smyrl? Perhaps his aim is to be provocative, confrontational, or perhaps just alliterative; hence, the odious coupling of 'Catholic' and 'cult.' Whatever the motivation, it is objectionable to lump Catholics with Mormons, Jehovahs Witnesses or with any of the smaller, mountebank cults.

[Haruo]

Just out of curiosity, what books do the Catholics make "equal to the Bible either as corrections or additions"?

[SLyons]

Patience...the great one, Rev James Smyrl, will educate us in the future articles. He is just showing you the grid today. In subsequent articles he shall tell us. I can't wait!

[Steve Wilcox]

[Steve Wilcox]

[Steve Wilcox]

[Steve Wilcox]

[Haruo]

[Big Daddy Weaver]

[Mark]

[Steve Wilcox]

[Steve Wilcox]