The all new SBC Conservative Resurgence

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The all new SBC Conservative Resurgence

Postby William Thornton » Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:49 pm

My mod friends may now say, “Told ya so.”

I’m not up for this one.
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Re: The all new SBC Conservative Resurgence

Postby Haruo » Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:29 pm

What is it? Link?
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Re: The all new SBC Conservative Resurgence

Postby Tim Bonney » Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:34 am

William Thornton wrote:My mod friends may now say, “Told ya so.”

I’m not up for this one.


Share more. I've not heard about this.
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Re: The all new SBC Conservative Resurgence

Postby William Thornton » Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:01 am

Things have progressed a bit but here is my article with links:

https://sbcvoices.com/i-dont-think-ill- ... d-funding/

Essentially, it’s the same old thing - a more right wing group. It’s tough to claim, though, that any of the six SBC seminaries are liberal. You will recognize a lot of the same stuff as in 1979.

There’s a racial element in this. Has to do with everything said to be included with “woke” stuff. My prediction is that the group will fail and that it’s more aBout secular politics.

Eerie similarities to the CR but no chance of the new group winning elections for years on end. Inept leadership, among other things.

The new group may opt to create a separate funding mechanism but that is rank conjecture by me. Too early to see how well or,poorly they will do.
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Re: The all new SBC Conservative Resurgence

Postby Tim Bonney » Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:35 pm

William Thornton wrote:Things have progressed a bit but here is my article with links:

https://sbcvoices.com/i-dont-think-ill- ... d-funding/

Essentially, it’s the same old thing - a more right wing group. It’s tough to claim, though, that any of the six SBC seminaries are liberal. You will recognize a lot of the same stuff as in 1979.

There’s a racial element in this. Has to do with everything said to be included with “woke” stuff. My prediction is that the group will fail and that it’s more aBout secular politics.

Eerie similarities to the CR but no chance of the new group winning elections for years on end. Inept leadership, among other things.

The new group may opt to create a separate funding mechanism but that is rank conjecture by me. Too early to see how well or,poorly they will do.


The only thing I saw new that didn't sound just like the old resurgence group was the opposition to social justice. I don't get that. Why would anyone we against justice?
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Re: The all new SBC Conservative Resurgence

Postby William Thornton » Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:16 pm

In the SBC right now there’s a lot of implied content in the phrase “social justice.” The SBC has a considerable number of ethnic minority congregations, probably many more than the abc or cbf. Not sure about umc. One of the differences between ethnic minority congregations and ethnic majority ones is politics and political issues.
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Re: The all new SBC Conservative Resurgence

Postby Tim Bonney » Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:24 pm

William Thornton wrote:In the SBC right now there’s a lot of implied content in the phrase “social justice.” The SBC has a considerable number of ethnic minority congregations, probably many more than the abc or cbf. Not sure about umc. One of the differences between ethnic minority congregations and ethnic majority ones is politics and political issues.


Social Principles both in the ABC/USA and the UMC are pretty important. While it does touch on politics, the focus is on advocacy for poor and needy people and racial minorities. The Methodists adopted our first "Social Creed" in 1908 which developed into a set of "Social Principles" that have been in the Methodist Church and the UMC ever since.

Reading what the far right wing SBC folks say about Social Justice you'd think it was some new fangled liberal agenda. Its not new and it isn't so much liberal as it is Christ Kingdom oriented.

Some of these same folks have no problem getting involved in politics when it amounts to campaigning for the president. Why balk at involvement to eliminate racism or reduce poverty?
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Alabama and Mississippi SBC

Postby Stephen Fox » Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:12 am

In Miss the SBC played a key role in bringing the Confederate emblem off the state flag, that and Miss State and Ole Miss 5 star recruits threatening to opt out. The real test of the SBC is not the new more Pressler like Group with Mohler's ridiculous thoughts on populism and Trump, the test is in Alabama will Rick Lance be as struck mute as the 8 white ministers to whom ML King sent the letter from the Bham Jail in this Senate contest between the By God Gun Man Auburn Coach Tuberville and incumbent Doug Jones.

If the Bama SBC sits this one out, then God have mercy on their souls and all the SBC Voices including Al Molher can't redeem them.
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By their fruits , we Know em

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri May 07, 2021 10:15 am

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Re: The all new SBC Conservative Resurgence

Postby William Thornton » Wed May 12, 2021 5:59 am

Actually, I am up for a new hotly contested SBC conflict. Four candidates for SBC prez next month at the annual meeting in Nashville.

Al Mohler, should have been a shoo-in but has a lot of people in the convention with Mohler fatigue; hence, the rise and popularity of..
Ed Litton, mostly unknown pastor who is sensible, positive, and not connected with Mohlerites or the Pattersonites whose candidate...
Mike Stone, Georgia pastor, pushed as the New Conservative Resurgence guy. Lots of lies to make anyone and any SBC entity into liberal
Randy Adams, an outside the Deep South reform candidate who is fed up with SBC secrecy and unaccountability, is the fourth candidate.

One might long for a nice, stable harmonious system like the United Methodists. ;)

We keep at it and the Grand Old SBC will splinter down to the size of the CBF/Alliance et al. But then, there’s all those seminaries and colleges.

Yeah, you guys said ‘I told ya so.’
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Re: The all new SBC Conservative Resurgence

Postby Tim Bonney » Mon May 17, 2021 2:46 pm

William Thornton wrote:
One might long for a nice, stable harmonious system like the United Methodists. ;)

We keep at it and the Grand Old SBC will splinter down to the size of the CBF/Alliance et al. But then, there’s all those seminaries and colleges.

Yeah, you guys said ‘I told ya so.’


As the UMC is right now likely to split in 2022 (only put off that long because of the pandemic) I won't argue that we are stable! But I'm to the point now when I'm ready for us to just get our split over with.

The conservative Methodists (who will call themselves the Global Methodist Church) can be happy they chased off all the people who love and support LGBTQ folks (at least until their membership has its next batch of LGBTQ+ children) and then the moderates and progressives can actually talk about something else other than LGBTQ discrimination once it is no longer enshrined in our Discipline.

Following that I predict both groups will find something else to fight about. But, maybe not for a few years.
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Re: The all new SBC Conservative Resurgence

Postby Dave Roberts » Tue May 18, 2021 6:09 am

I keep remembering what Tony Campolo said in the SBC Forum (alternative to the Pastors Conference) in the early 1980's. He said, "You are so busy down here in Dixie creating a pure denomination that one day you will hold your conventions in the front seat of a car."
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Re: The all new SBC Conservative Resurgence

Postby Tim Bonney » Tue May 18, 2021 10:49 am

Dave Roberts wrote:I keep remembering what Tony Campolo said in the SBC Forum (alternative to the Pastors Conference) in the early 1980's. He said, "You are so busy down here in Dixie creating a pure denomination that one day you will hold your conventions in the front seat of a car."


Yep, that could happen to many Christian groups. We draw the circle smaller and then wonder why no one wants in.
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Re: The all new SBC Conservative Resurgence

Postby William Thornton » Tue May 18, 2021 4:46 pm

Our giving plan, the venerable Cooperative Program, is headed down to around $450 million. Not chump change. The direct support for the two mission boards is around $240 million. There are a lot of assets. Expect some segment to depart or reduce their SBC involvement after the June election. But, as the moderates learned in the 1980s and 1990s, folks are loath to get on a new train. The SBC will slog along.
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Re: The all new SBC Conservative Resurgence

Postby Tim Bonney » Tue May 18, 2021 6:37 pm

William Thornton wrote:Our giving plan, the venerable Cooperative Program, is headed down to around $450 million. Not chump change. The direct support for the two mission boards is around $240 million. There are a lot of assets. Expect some segment to depart or reduce their SBC involvement after the June election. But, as the moderates learned in the 1980s and 1990s, folks are loath to get on a new train. The SBC will slog along.


Yes, it is much easier for a pastor to decide to leave their denomination than it is to talk a congregation into leaving. I think our own Methodist conservatives may be surprised that some conservative churches will stay just because they don't want to leave their original denomination.
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Plus Billy Graham and Tim Tebow

Postby Stephen Fox » Wed May 19, 2021 4:54 pm

All coming together in a cluster fudd rucker of a mess. Billy Graham was spotlighted for two hours on American Experience Monday night on PBS. plus check my blog today on Tebow and Finebaum. And here from 2013 featuring Furman grad Mac Brunson all in the mix

pba pretty fair to graham but makes strong point Graham with Nixon and other shenanigans opened the door for Falwell to establish the Trump base...Sadly they didn't get Mohler on the record with his assertion to Charles Marsh that Billy worked ardently behind the scenes to further the fundamentalist takeover of the SBC

https://www.baptistpress.com/resource-l ... hristians/

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Re: The all new SBC Conservative Resurgence

Postby Dave Roberts » Sun May 23, 2021 8:43 am

William Thornton wrote:Our giving plan, the venerable Cooperative Program, is headed down to around $450 million. Not chump change. The direct support for the two mission boards is around $240 million. There are a lot of assets. Expect some segment to depart or reduce their SBC involvement after the June election. But, as the moderates learned in the 1980s and 1990s, folks are loath to get on a new train. The SBC will slog along.


I find the SBC story to be a sad one. Slogging along is hardly the word that was supposed to describe how the denomination would sail rapidly into the future with amazing growth "once the liberal barnacles were removed from the hull." What was once an organization focused on missions became instead one focused on finding error and rooting it out. It's sad to watch the debacle continue as Lifeway sells major assets and the IMB parts with its real estate holdings in Richmond to keep the ship afloat.
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Re: The all new SBC Conservative Resurgence

Postby William Thornton » Sun May 23, 2021 3:40 pm

And the CBF would be...?
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Re: The all new SBC Conservative Resurgence

Postby Dave Roberts » Tue May 25, 2021 6:30 am

William Thornton wrote:And the CBF would be...?


According to the Baptist Press articles about it, CBF would be a short-lived, one generation movement that would die as soon as the generation of the founders was gone. The dream of many in CBF was that more of the old SBC would join, but the withering criticism kept that from happening. CBF is now in its second generation being run by a new generation. It will never be a total fulfillment of the dream, but it does have a place at the table and a financial structure flexible enough to keep it moving. There are more efforts being made in Hispanic ministries along the border, in migrant resettlement worldwide, and in the presence of longterm mission efforts that are continuing. Only God knows the future, but there is a younger generation that has now taken the reins of leadership for the movement. Much remains to be seen, but it is not likely to be coming back to the SBC.
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Re: The all new SBC Conservative Resurgence

Postby William Thornton » Tue May 25, 2021 4:53 pm

Or, the CBF started with the idea that 40% would join them. Very, very few did. Nonetheless, each one should go where they feel comfortable.
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Re: The all new SBC Conservative Resurgence

Postby Dave Roberts » Wed May 26, 2021 2:43 pm

I'm always amazed that discussion on the SBC always end up in "whatabout" discussions of moderate groups rather than just an honest discussion of the SBC. Moderates left the SBC behind long ago, not necessarily with all the marks of denominational success that the SBC'ers want, but with a breaking from the past. The SBC is seldom mentioned in any moderate groups of which I am aware. They want to be about the things they are for, not the things they are against.
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Re: The all new SBC Conservative Resurgence

Postby William Thornton » Thu May 27, 2021 4:57 am

CBF makes an appearance in the New SBC CR.

Prez candidate Al Mohler: “...look at the ruins of the moderate movement that left the SBC behind. It is a morass of doctrinal porridge, outright heresy, and the embrace of the LGBTQ agenda.”

Years ago I said I could be a mod but was wary of their trajectory. I’m appreciative of my mod friends here and elsewhere. We can fellowship and even cooperate on some levels.

The SBC is less than three weeks off. My prediction is that Mohler may win, but not first ballot. Little known Ed Litton has considerable support. Angry reformer Randy Adams will get the vote of the perpetually disgruntled 10% of SBCers. Patterson rehab candidate Mike Stone has loud support. Unsure how this translates into votes.

But, except for providing Fox with another mental hemorrhage, I know you guys aren’t much interested.

Bruce has the best thing going with his retreat events.
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Re: The all new SBC Conservative Resurgence

Postby Tim Bonney » Sat May 29, 2021 8:45 am

William Thornton wrote:CBF makes an appearance in the New SBC CR.

Prez candidate Al Mohler: “...look at the ruins of the moderate movement that left the SBC behind. It is a morass of doctrinal porridge, outright heresy, and the embrace of the LGBTQ agenda.”

Years ago I said I could be a mod but was wary of their trajectory. I’m appreciative of my mod friends here and elsewhere. We can fellowship and even cooperate on some levels.

The SBC is less than three weeks off. My prediction is that Mohler may win, but not first ballot. Little known Ed Litton has considerable support. Angry reformer Randy Adams will get the vote of the perpetually disgruntled 10% of SBCers. Patterson rehab candidate Mike Stone has loud support. Unsure how this translates into votes.

But, except for providing Fox with another mental hemorrhage, I know you guys aren’t much interested.

Bruce has the best thing going with his retreat events.


To me it is sad that Al can't justify the SBC without taking pot shots at the CBF or at mainline Christians. He lays the decline of the mainline at the feet of "liberalism" yet can't explain why the SBC, clearly not liberal, is also declining.

The real truth is that western Christianity is declining in part because a major portion of evangelical Christianity has become synonymous with nationalism and a single political viewpoint. And in part because the mainline, fearful of losing its aging white conservative population, is too wishy washy about being solidly progressive and instead chases off its own young adults by not taking a clear unabashed progressive stand. So both groups are in a continual internal set of battles damaging themselves far more from within than anyone else damages them from without.

I personally believe both that evangelicalism and progressive/mainline denominations could flourish if they could get back to the main thing being the main thing, stop the internal politics and in fighting, stop the connection to secular politics and just get back to what Jesus said were the two greatest commandments.
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June 7 The Atlantic

Postby Stephen Fox » Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:29 am

Changes everything. Everybody in Ether county gonna hear about this.
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