Latest SBC Mess Involves MBTS, ERLC and George Soros

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Latest SBC Mess Involves MBTS, ERLC and George Soros

Postby Sandy » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:05 pm

The blending of extremist right wing conservative politics with a far right, conservative, mostly-found-in-the-South denomination is producing some feisty, fiery conflict and war of words. Moderate Southern Baptists who were either pushed off to the side or completely out of the SBC were prophetic in their declaration that after the conservative resurgence, the direction of the denomination would lead to more conflict. But there's plenty of it, from doctrinal conflict in which some pastors are pushing for a revision of the BFM 2000 and stronger enforcement of its terms to political opposition or support for Trump generating lies on top of lies in a confusing tangle of fights and wars of words over, of all things, financial support from George Soros.

To quote another member of the board here, "You can't make this stuff up."

https://capstonereport.com/2020/01/09/b ... ble/33713/

https://sbcvoices.com/thou-shalt-not-li ... rge-soros/

And then there's this, on one of their other scandals related to sexual abuse. Though justifiably fired from Southwestern Seminary, Paige Patterson, as one of the architects of the conservative resurgence, still has a following who are willing to ignore his bad behavior related to handling sexual abuse reports, the Gilyard controversy and what has been a complete cover up of the disaster he perpetrated on Southwestern Seminary.

https://sbcvoices.com/suspended-silence ... an-codone/

The lack of integrity is bound to have some kind of fallout.
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Re: Latest SBC Mess Involves MBTS, ERLC and George Soros

Postby William Thornton » Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:13 pm

Not sure what you mean by your last sentence.
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Re: Latest SBC Mess Involves MBTS, ERLC and George Soros

Postby Haruo » Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:16 pm

And Soros unabashedly used his knowledge of Esperanto to cross the Iron Curtain, bringing his Molotov-tainted brand of wealth management to the UK and eventually the Free World. And many Esperanto-speakers—perhaps including Soros!!—support gay marriage.

Where will it all end?
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Re: Latest SBC Mess Involves MBTS, ERLC and George Soros

Postby Tim Bonney » Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:28 am

Sandy wrote: Moderate Southern Baptists who were either pushed off to the side or completely out of the SBC were prophetic in their declaration that after the conservative resurgence, the direction of the denomination would lead to more conflict.


It doesn't take much prophetic ability. Fundamentalist movements are purity movements. You have to purify the unholy unBiblical elements out of the denomination to be what God wants you to be. The problem? How pure is pure enough? Purity movements draw the circle smaller and smaller in the never ending goal of "Biblical" purity. As only God is inerrant, no human movement is without failings so you can always find someone who should be given the boot.
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Re: Latest SBC Mess Involves MBTS, ERLC and George Soros

Postby Tim Bonney » Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:30 am

BTW, if you want to see the nutty right wing fringe, go read "Pulpit and Pen." They think the SBC leadership is rife with wild eyed liberals apparently. (Be ready to laugh, or take an antacid before reading.)
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Re: Latest SBC Mess Involves MBTS, ERLC and George Soros

Postby Sandy » Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:37 pm

William Thornton wrote:Not sure what you mean by your last sentence.


Southwestern's trustees were going to "golden parachute" Patterson out until facts came out that more or less forced their hand to flat out dismiss him. The SBC annual meeting in Dallas backed them up. But there's been no accountability for the complete breakdown of the trustee system which allowed his incompetence and excesses to literally destroy what had been one of the best seminaries in the country and one of the SBC's best assets. Being one of the "architects" of the Conservative Resurgence does not make up for incompetence and ego-driven excess. Local churches can give him honorariums and invite him to speak until the cows come home, and many will do just that, but the SBC needs to acknowledge that giving him two seminary presidencies as a reward for his service was a mistake. The SBC needs to acknowledge that executive posts should not be given as rewards for services rendered to those influential enough to grab them. Calling on the trustees who allowed the disaster to be perpetrated at Southwestern to step down would be the right thing to do. A resolution to that effect, acknowledging the mistakes that were made, would be a demonstration of ingtegrity.
Last edited by Sandy on Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Latest SBC Mess Involves MBTS, ERLC and George Soros

Postby Sandy » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:07 pm

Tim Bonney wrote:BTW, if you want to see the nutty right wing fringe, go read "Pulpit and Pen." They think the SBC leadership is rife with wild eyed liberals apparently. (Be ready to laugh, or take an antacid before reading.)


Here's one of their recent offerings related to Southern Baptists. It explains a lot when it comes to where conservative, Evangelical Christianity is these days and how it is that people who claim to believe the Bible is inerrant and infallible and that sinless perfection is attainable self-righteousness have embraced a depraved, debauched womanizer, playboy, sexual abuser, adulterous liar as President of the United States.

https://pulpitandpen.org/2020/01/11/bar ... onvention/
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Re: Latest SBC Mess Involves MBTS, ERLC and George Soros

Postby Tim Bonney » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:25 pm

Sandy wrote:
Southwestern's trustees were going to "golden parachute" Patterson out until facts came out that more or less forced their hand to flat out dismiss him.


One of the things I appreciated about the ABC/USA and also now about the UMC is that the seminaries aren't owned by the denomination. The trustee boards are far less political because of it.
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Re: Latest SBC Mess Involves MBTS, ERLC and George Soros

Postby Haruo » Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:08 pm

Quite an amazing diatribe. I added a silly comment on a comment. Who is JDHall? Aside from founder of the site, that is.

Sandy wrote:
Tim Bonney wrote:BTW, if you want to see the nutty right wing fringe, go read "Pulpit and Pen." They think the SBC leadership is rife with wild eyed liberals apparently. (Be ready to laugh, or take an antacid before reading.)


Here's one of their recent offerings related to Southern Baptists. It explains a lot when it comes to where conservative, Evangelical Christianity is these days and how it is that people who claim to believe the Bible is inerrant and infallible and that sinless perfection is attainable self-righteousness have embraced a depraved, debauched womanizer, playboy, sexual abuser, adulterous liar as President of the United States.

https://pulpitandpen.org/2020/01/11/bar ... onvention/
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Re: Latest SBC Mess Involves MBTS, ERLC and George Soros

Postby Sandy » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:58 am

Haruo wrote:Who is JDHall? Aside from founder of the site, that is.


According to their website, he is one of two elders, and I'm guessing pastor of the Fellowship Baptist Church of Sidney, Montana. The church notes that it is an independent, autonomous Baptist church in fellowship with other like (narrow) minded churches in Montana, North Dakota and Saskatchewan. That makes me think it is connected to one of the German or Scandinavian Baptist groups. I've encountered some folks from that part of the country with German Baptist origins, and I can see why their fellowships and associations are small, and why they can't all voluntarily cooperate with each other.

Their way of assigning guilt by association is, well, interesting. They are sure that Soros is funding the "Evangelical Immigrant Table" so that connects every thought George Soros has to anyone connected with the EIT, confirming that they are heretics. Their "proof", which amounts to three citations in the article, are references to other articles they've written which assert that Soros funds the roundtable and the membership of prominent Southern Baptists in it indicts every single member of the whole convention, which is why it is going to hell in a handbasket. Few of the citations and references anywhere in the whole blog refer to anyone else but themselves. I'm amazed that there are actually other people who lack the discernment and intelligence necessary to discern what's being said and done and who choose to attend this congregation for their worship of God.
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Good for a Laugh

Postby Sandy » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:01 am

I had to explain to my wife what I was reading last night. It started as a chuckle, but I wound up laughing so hard, the tears were falling.

JD Hall in Pulpit and Pen wrote: It is true that the pastorate often attracts men with no ability to make it in the real world. The church is often a soft place that provides a soft landing for men of soft hands and a softer intellect. The pastorate has too often become the fat-trap and cesspool for talentless, soulless, effeminate hacks who are drawn to an office job in which they only occasionally waddle their potluck-swollen paunches out to the nursing home to romance dying widows...The only reason these men have jobs is because they live such a miserable life of uselessness that no one of higher intellect, skill, or drive covets their position. Put plainly, they represent the pastorate so poorly that no self-respecting young man would dare desire the office lest they surrender their life as wasted, so far as it has been portrayed to them.


Sounds to me like someone either got fired by an SBC church, or has been rejected by some SBC pulpit committees.

JD Hall in Pulpit and Pen wrote:The Southern Baptist Convention is promoting Critical Race Theory, Cultural Marxism, and Black Liberation Theology. The hours documenting this in video, audio, and with class notes from SBC seminaries verify this beyond even a shadow of a doubt. The ERLC has done nothing but attack President Trump through its army of leftist “research fellows” and are literally inviting Obama’s Democrat campaign staffers to lecture us on “civility.” For mercy sakes, the ERLC lobbied to get a Mosque built in New Jersey. SBC leaders are promoting women pastors, preachers, and even tossing around the idea of a female president of the Southern Baptist Convention. They invited Hillary Clinton to preach at a Southern Baptist pastor’s conference! The SBC president recently supported preferred pronouns for trannies and said it was alright to believe in evolution (and that was just the last three weeks). All the while, this cabal of the devil is convinced that they are true “conservatives,” but only if they grade on a sliding scale and if compared to United Methodists.
.

First of all, I'm absolutely disappointed in my SBC pastor friends who failed to inform me that Hillary Clinton had been invited to speak at a pastor's conference. I'd have flown across the country to have been there, just to see it. Second, if the ERLC is doing all of that, I have been derelict in not forwarding a designated contribution to them. Third, I don't think I ever saw an indictment of the SBC anywhere near that bad from the hardliners in the Conservative Resurgence. And they got a backhanded dig in at the UMC.

Then it gets personal.

JD Hall in Pulpit and Pen wrote:Who I find despicable are the class of professional idiots who make their home in Southern Baptist pulpits. Bart Barber is one such professional idiot. Barber is on the leadership council of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission (ERLC), so he’s hardly a neutral source on the topic. Barber is precisely the type of hayseed pastor and local-yokel clergyman that corrupt entities lust after to put on their leadership councils and trustee boards. They need the kind of inbred naivety that men like Barber can give. Their blatant stupidity is a commodity that enriches Southern Baptist elites.


I would agree that Bart Barber is one of those SBC elites who find a way to get their fingers in every pie and use their influence and foyer-lobbying skills to wind up on multiple boards and committees. And I don't necessarily disagree with the fact that there is a kind of "inbred naivete'" which is what some of the entity leaders want when they're stacking a trustee board. But here you have someone who is trying to "out-conservative" a true conservative. The language is coarse and out of line and the criticism is a personal judgement that is a clear violation of scripture and a deliberate distortion of Barber's character. In short, it's a slanderous lie.

Here's my point. This is not hard to find among Baptists. It's everywhere. The reality is that there is an obsession with making sure everyone lines up with some theological perspective derived from some human interpretation of the "inerrant Bible," and subsequently to adopt the view that right wing extremist politics is the best way to spread the church's message and influence. I'm sure it exists in other corners of the Evangelical Christian political right, though I have to say, since leaving the SBC, I haven't seen anything even close to this caustic, destructive rhetoric anywhere else.
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Re: Good for a Laugh

Postby Tim Bonney » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:28 am

Sandy wrote: And they got a backhanded dig in at the UMC.


Sandy wrote:Here's my point. This is not hard to find among Baptists. It's everywhere. The reality is that there is an obsession with making sure everyone lines up with some theological perspective derived from some human interpretation of the "inerrant Bible," and subsequently to adopt the view that right wing extremist politics is the best way to spread the church's message and influence. I'm sure it exists in other corners of the Evangelical Christian political right, though I have to say, since leaving the SBC, I haven't seen anything even close to this caustic, destructive rhetoric anywhere else.


You should also read Seth Dunn's stuff on the site. It is equally caustic and equally out of touch with reality. And, yep, I had to chuckle about the dig at the UMC.
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Re: Latest SBC Mess Involves MBTS, ERLC and George Soros

Postby Sandy » Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:48 pm

Apparently, even they have detractors, which is why these people can't ever be in some kind of fellowship for any length of time.
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Re: Latest SBC Mess Involves MBTS, ERLC and George Soros

Postby William Thornton » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:37 pm

Can't believe you guys are reading this.
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Re: Latest SBC Mess Involves MBTS, ERLC and George Soros

Postby Sandy » Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:59 pm

William Thornton wrote:Can't believe you guys are reading this.


It's good for a laugh. And it's not as obscure as you think. I've heard from more than one of my Southern Baptist friends about all of the issues these guys are addressing.

It's also good for self-discipline and restraint. When I see something like this, I do some self-evaluation and pray that I avoid sounding like that when I'm in a disagreement with someone.
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Re: Latest SBC Mess Involves MBTS, ERLC and George Soros

Postby Dave Roberts » Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:25 am

All of this reminds me of Tony Campolo's prediction at the Southern Baptist Forum back in the early 1970's. I don't have the exact quote, but the gist was that the SBC was on a quest to create such a pure denomination in Dixie that meetings could be held in the front seat of a car. He may still be right.
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