American Baptist Ministers on Gay Rights

[Big Daddy Weaver]

That's the topic of my - which includes the findings pertaining to American Baptists from a recent survey of mainline clergy on gay rights questions.

[jerryl]

Thank for the post, I've waited because I wanted to say something after more reflection, but I just haven't had time so far.

Generally, I'm not surprised, among the mainlines, ABC-USA is more or less the mainline-to-evangelical bridge. The data seems to confirm that. On the basic question, no surprises.

But there may be some interesting analysis to be done on the clergy's view of their denomination's position on LGBT issues. Lots of things I could say, but a quick read seems to make me think that both conservative ABC-USA clergy and I both seem to feel ABC-USA leadership has leaned toward a progressive views on LGBT issues, no matter what those leaders officially say and the official stand of the denomination. Again, that's a very broad and quick read; I really want to take the time read that section carefully, and see if I can pull some numbers out to crunch on this. I may be reading too much into this, though.

Again thanks for posting.

jerryl

[Big Daddy Weaver]

[jerryl]

[Shawn Koester]

As a pastor to be in both the Christian Church (Disciples) and the American Baptist Churches USA, I support LGBT rights in and outside the church. I respect the soul liberty of my brothers and sisters that hold on to more conservative views. We can agree to disagree in Christ like love without finding the opposing views or the people who hold them disagreeable. I hold to affirming views of the LGBT community for several reasons and primarily because of my commitment to follow Jesus as my Lord and Savior. If Jesus is our Lord, as we proclaim, than we must be faithful to him and him alone. If Jesus is our Savior, as we proclaim, than he saves us from our sin and aimlessness. Jesus said that the two greatest commandments that sum up the law, prophets and the whole of Scripture is "To Love the Lord our God with all our heart, all our soul and all of our might and the second likened to it is "we must love our neighbor as self". Jesus also said, "Whoever welcomes a child in my name, welcomes me and whoever welcomes me welcomes the Father who sent me" Jesus also said, "Suffer not the little children to come unto me and forbid them not for such people the kingdom belongs". As Christians we are to recognize the immortal light and love of God in each person and to see the face of our Lord on each person as if they were Jesus himself. I find that as a straight, engaged ally of the LGBT community and a Progressive Evangelical, I find that God's gay, lesbian, bi and transgender children are some of the most faithful disciples I know because they have been rejected at the hands of many in the church, they have suffered second class citizenship at the hands of our own government and through it all, they have remained faithful witnesses of our Lord. By dragging the Lord's name into hate we have essentially driven people away from the Lord and out of the church. In that light we say, Jesus, son of the living God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

By listen to each other and being constructive can we move forward in our efforts to work and pray for the kingdom of God.

I recommend some reading particularly God and the Gay Christian by Matthew Vines, Stranger at the Gate: To be Gay and Christian in America by Mel White, Does Jesus Really Love Me?: A Gay Christian's Search for God in America by Jeff Chu.

[Tim Bonney]

I'm enjoying your writing Shawn. Glad you are hear!

[KeithE]

[Ed Pettibone]

[KeithE]

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed; Please note the study reported in the first post of this thread was done in 2009. I question its validity for today.[/quote]

KeithE: Good point and I betcha a survey taken today of ABC clergy would be more liberal than it was in 2009. Do you agree?[/quote]

Ed: Yes, But the degree would depend on what group did the survey. Although I say yes, the number of post SBC takeover SBC pastors, coming into ABC churches may affect that. Also what definition of liberal one uses.

Were the same group who did the original to do another, I would guess perhaps a 4% up-tic in liberality, due primarily to the Death and Retirement of many of the more conservative long term pastors. The impact of new socially liberal young pastors is negated somewhat by rising numbers of more conservative bi-vocational pastors filling the pulpits of declining churches.

[pastorpete]

[Tim Bonney]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Tim Bonney]

I'm not sure I want to go through it again. But it certainly appears there are plenty of people who do Ed.

As to being "welcoming to a stranger" how does that apply to a discussion board? Do I throw him softballs for a few weeks or months? Do I pretend we agree and then surprise him in a few months by pointing out our differences?

It seems to me that the way to welcome someone to discussion forum is to share honestly our agreements and differences.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Tim Bonney]

[Sandy]

[Tim Bonney]

[Ed Pettibone]