Uniformed Gadfly

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Uniformed Gadfly

Postby sheila » Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:18 am

Steven,considering baptistlife.com's apparent willingness for the past 4 or 5 yrs.to post your rantings about anyone who disagress with you I assume that I will awarded the same priviledge-the 1st amendment is a wonderful thing,ment to be an instrument to insure free speech-but is to often used for the purpose of lies,slander,and out right harassment-to further one mans personal vendettas-this is where you and I part company-I will defend your right to express your views but,it seems unless somebody agrees with youyou won't allow them the same right-For someone who prides himself on being spiritually,politically and legally informed this is a MAJOR deficit on your part-This may suprise you Steve-but,most Southern Baptists don't know and don't care who is in the Southern Baptist Hierchy-county,state,or nation or who wrote this or that book or article or who went to this or that convention or who is or is not a fundamentalist.what the WORKING peoplewho actually practice what they claim to follow care about is this-Are those that are in a posistion of authority -who make choices that affect our denomination-are they truly in touch with god-and are they using his word as their guide?Beyond that we really don't care about conventions,politicking and self important little people -we are to busy WORKING for a living -taking responsibility -PRAYING for the believer and unbeliever alike and doing what God reveals to us through those prayers what he wants uds to do-When was the last time you did that?I don't mind or even care that your idea of Southern baptists is different from mine-Back in the day I used to admire you for your willingness to march to the beat of a different drummer-But,when you seek to tear down my drum and those of other people who won't march to your tune that's where my admiration ends-What little respect I once had for you is gone-You were raised by two of the finest people I ever knew-who by the way greatly loved that sister of mine that you seem so intent on destroyingyoue were brought into this world from the body of a strong bible believing woman of faith-were raised witha sisterwho from all accounts is a fine lady-yet you persist in spiritually attacking women such as myself ,Mrs.Wilkins,Mrs.Chambers,Ms moore and even Mrs Morgan-the preachers wife.Women -who if your actions and words indicate you don't think know their place.In Timothy 5:2 Paul exhorts Timothy to treat "older women as mothers and younger women as sisters"-Let that be your guide Brother!You seem ready to drop names and claim friendships with many people-most of whom I suspect you barely know-but.whatever right?Anything to bolster your non-existent claims of fellowship and your exaggerations of and out right lies about your supposed persecutions-Here's the thing Steve-pull up a chair and listen closely-the truth always comes out-Even when the liar appears to win-even when justice is slow in coming-When you bear false witness againest your neighbor -when you slander him-when you blame your neighbor for the failures and deficiences that you and only you are responsible for-sooner or later you will be found out-TO BE CONTINUED
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Postby Joseph Patrick » Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:14 am

From Joseph Patrick...

Sheila, I do not know you or Stephen Fox, and certainly have no dog in your "family" fued...and totally agree in the 1st amendment, ... but as you are both probably in the same area code, instead of the passive aggressive letter writing, call each other. Or, to paraphrase what another Alabamian said, "Why don't you two take this outside?"
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Postby William Thornton » Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:44 am

Sheila,

You all have my sympathy. I cannot speak for the others here but I have asked that the plug be pulled on my friend Stephen's Collinsville saga. IMO, this isn't the place for his manufactured soap opera with names named and all that; however, I wouldn't worry too much if I were you, hardly anyone here knows any of you but we do know Fox and understand...

Stephen...can't you pour your energies and creativity in another direction? How about tackling the olympics or Cheney or anything?
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Postby rdenton » Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:07 am

Joseph Patrick wrote:From Joseph Patrick...

Sheila, I do not know you or Stephen Fox, and certainly have no dog in your "family" fued...and totally agree in the 1st amendment, ... but as you are both probably in the same area code, instead of the passive aggressive letter writing, call each other. Or, to paraphrase what another Alabamian said, "Why don't you two take this outside?"


Fox started this whole thing and apparently has no sense of decorum in spewing his own bile all over the place. I watched this forum for a couple of years before I started posting here occasionally, and I can tell you that he has said the most ungodly and hateful things about people over and over again. If he were a fundamentalist, or if his targets were anyone other than the people hated by the forum leaders, he would have been banned long ago. What is coming from his fingers through the keyboard now is just making more obvious what some of us concluded long ago--that he acts the part of a childish whiner. He has no class. I can't say that I blame his church for taking some kind of action. I am surprised they waited as long as they did, since he has been airing his dissatisfaction with his church's leadership for a long time in this forum. I can't even imagine how difficult he might make it in person.
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Postby wilkey » Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:30 am

Just wondering where Sheila was during Rosa Parks and Judge Moore and what opinion she had on such a dramatic episodes in her state. For that matter is she aware of the land tax issue brought up for a vote in the last state election? To simply sit back and support the troups and government with our prayers and encouragement is a noble cause. There is also a place in history to challenge the power structures. rdenton is bordering on doing what he accuses Stephen of. Do you really believe he has "no class". He tends to respond to critics like you with dignity and respect and not offering back evil for evil as his model Martin Luther King sought to do. Real TV is a hit and I guess real baptist forums is also here. Sheila if you worry about slander of your church on this site I wouldn't worry. Most of the folks here are mature observers of Baptist churches. Some of them I wouldn't care what opinion they held anyway.
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Postby Lamar Wadsworth » Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:44 pm

I've known Brer Fox a good 20 years or so, since Abraham was in Ur of the Chaldees. He came over to Rome to share in our joy when granddaughter Anna Rose Nash was born back in August. I knew and pastored in the same association with his father Billy Fox, among the finest ministers of the gospel I've ever known. Yeah, I know Brer Fox has some strange ideas, like thinking God's people ought to be standing with the poor and powerless rather than the rich and powerful. Speaking the truth to power, sort of the job description of a prophet. He's not nearly as hard on the Bush administration or some of the powers-that-be in Alabama (my wife is from Gadsden, I went to college at Jacksonville and pastored at Talladega, so I know Alabama) as some of the OT prophets would have been. Prophets are sometimes abrasive, and it's easier to kill them, silence them, or send them away than to consider that what they are saying just might be the word of God for the hour. Anybody who knew Billy Fox can tell you that the apple didn't fall far from the tree. Billy could have had a much more comfortable life and been much more "successful" if he had had less of the prophetic in him. If Billy were alive and in Collinsville today, he'd be telling the church that the influx of Hispanics into Collinsville is the greatest evangelistic and ministry opportunity in the church's history.

As far as the current Collinsville saga, I imagine that there is enough blame to go around. However, I do know that feeling cut off from one's community of faith hurts. The most meaningful observance of the Lord's Supper that I ever experienced took place around the kitchen table of a pastor friend who had been fired for no good reason 10 months into a pastorate. Bear in mind that, though Brer Fox can be a little abrasive at times, he is profoundly right about a lot of stuff. Bear in mind also that he has been hurt, and that he needs some good fellowship of believers to love him just the way he is.
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Postby Joshua Villines » Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:50 pm

It astonishes me that people will choose to be a part of an organization and not care about the ideas/behaviors/ethics/morals/beliefs/priorities of the leaders who run that organization.
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Thank you Jonathan and Lamar

Postby fox » Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:49 pm

I think we are in a teachable moment here in Collinsville. I am hoping Bruce Gourley will let this play out. I am a fallen creature; and as I have said before I am neither the Messiah, nor Bonhoeffer, nor Marshall Frady, nor King, nor Judge Frank Johnson; nor do I believe they would have acted in every instance like I have acted in Collinsville the last near twenty years.
There was an incident in Sunday School just this morning where Ms. Lyberry Wilkins Sister Sheila Smith, whom other Sunday school members are convinced posted this thread, interrupted Sunday School calling herself the "office manager" for the church and with that "authority" refused to print out the UMC minister Gene Lankford's oped and David Ostendorff's piece from the UMC Monitor of http://www.gcorr.org cause I hadn't paid for it. I had talked to the Pastor's son John III who is working with Habitat for Humanity in Americus on phone before Sunday School and he was more than happy to get it published out as it was eventually done and made available to the class for the series on Immigrant Justice issues the class is starting next week.
I have invited Senator Shelby's staff in US Senate to keep an eye on that thread on this board, and national folks in the vein of King and Oscar Romero to guide us interactively. Others faults notwithstanding I hear Furman proffs and Stewart Newman and Marney and Truett and even my own Mom and Dad who Sheila spoke so fondly of, cheering me on in my own episode here in Momma's hometown where my Grandfather Jordan ran as a Lincoln Republican to the jeers most likely from some of Sheila's ancestors in what became the most ethnically diverse town in the state.
I am working toward an event here that promises to speak to the soul of Alabama about not only carrying democracy internationally, but refining it to the Promise of Lincoln and King here in Alabama where were it not for folks like me and Jim Evans and Sara Shelton and Flynt and Gary Farley and Gary Burton, the BFM 2000 of Steve Gaines and Roy Moore would make a mockery of everything King stood for.
Of course it will drivel into carnival on occasion. But I am here in this moment, and barring too much Jerry Springer, I call on Gourley to let it play and we shall see what the End Will Be.
Sooon and very soon will post my speech I am planning shortly to the Collinsville City Council. It's gonna be good; may be tomorrow, may be sometime shortly after the Shooger Booger's wedding to the Prince.
I called Texas this morning and been singing We Shall Overcome in the Church Parking Lot.
God Have Mercy on Us All; and RDenton, would love for you and my good friends Jonathan and William to join me in continual reading this year of Marilyn Robinson's The Death of Adam.
And Oh, there have been fits and spurts in my work History, but thank God for the times when I was working, especially at the Broad River Brick Yard the summer of 71 an d72 and of course seasonal UPS which didn't come my way this year and all the grand dames along Gault in Ft. Payne were denied my Christmas Carols.
How Long, Not Long.............sfox
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Postby Mark » Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:16 pm

I have been deeply moved by these words of tribute and support for Fox. Especially from Lamar, who expressed the core of my sentiments. And from Wilkey who, like Pastor Morgan in Collinsville, has been serving, preaching to, enduring, loving, and being endured / loved by :) , a single small-town congregation for more than 25 years. That's remarkable to THIS preacher's kid named Mark, and a tribute to both pastor and people, along with their families.

Joshua, likewise, is right on target in this case. I share his bafflement that good people will, every Sunday, cough up 10% of their hard-earned money for the work of God and their local church, only to have anywhere from 5 to 25% of that weekly "tithe" be earmarked for state and national denominational bureaucracies they'd prefer not to be bothered having to learn about, or to even know if it's the same organization they once supported.

Later in the day, many of these same good people will quibble over whether or not they've overtipped a minimum wage-earning restaurant sever by twenty cents.

More to the point: As evidenced over the past two days at BL.Com, I sometimes get as frustrated as anyone with our friend Mr. Fox. I'm not even among those folks in Collinsville who live around him every day. (Which must surely be anything except dull. :o :) ) In no way do I want that point to be forgotten or minimized.

But I also know, as Lamar stated so perfectly, those who have been given a gift of prophecy are often - no, usually - abrasive. Impatient. Controversial. Unconventional. Brilliant. Crazy. Obsessed with justice and fairness. John the Baptist. Amos. Cecil Sherman. These, I'm absolutely convinced, were/are prophets of God.

Are there others around here... Fox, Jane-the-pain, Wilkey, J.Villines... who have the gift of prophecy? I don't know for sure. Sometimes it seems they do. Having these folks around here sometimes makes life frustrating and complicated; but more often I've been blessed, enriched, and provoked to live a Christian life that reflects greater service and integrity.

Bottom line: What happens at Collinsville Baptist Church, or what it does or decides, is none of my business. But if you're willing to consider one outsider's observation: I suspect Collinsville would have had, and would still have, a 75% quieter S.Fox (okay... 50% is probably more realistic) to the extent equal consideration, equal freedom is/was extended to those who prefer options and alterntives in financing Baptist mission work and in choosing the best literature to help Baptists study the Bible. In such an environment, no one has to feel "second class" or ignored.

To the best of my knowledge, Fox has been asking his church for no extra privleges beyond that currently granted to members of First Baptist Huntsville (Alabama's oldest congregation); or in nearby Georgia, First Baptist Athens (where your own Jon Appleton was pastor), and First Baptist Augusta (birthplace of the SBC).

With malice toward none, I extend my prayers and best wishes to all involved.
Last edited by Mark on Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby William Thornton » Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:17 pm

What can one say? The insanitygrows...Wilkey sounds like Fox. Heaven help us. I'm glad we have the one Fox but one is all we need or can stand at any given moment.
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Postby Ed Pettibone » Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:24 pm

Lamar Wadsworth wrote:I've known Brer Fox a good 20 years or so, since Abraham was in Ur of the Chaldees. He came over to Rome to share in our joy when granddaughter Anna Rose Nash was born back in August. I knew and pastored in the same association with his father Billy Fox, among the finest ministers of the gospel I've ever known. Yeah, I know Brer Fox has some strange ideas, like thinking God's people ought to be standing with the poor and powerless rather than the rich and powerful. Speaking the truth to power, sort of the job description of a prophet. He's not nearly as hard on the Bush administration or some of the powers-that-be in Alabama (my wife is from Gadsden, I went to college at Jacksonville and pastored at Talladega, so I know Alabama) as some of the OT prophets would have been. Prophets are sometimes abrasive, and it's easier to kill them, silence them, or send them away than to consider that what they are saying just might be the word of God for the hour. Anybody who knew Billy Fox can tell you that the apple didn't fall far from the tree. Billy could have had a much more comfortable life and been much more "successful" if he had had less of the prophetic in him. If Billy were alive and in Collinsville today, he'd be telling the church that the influx of Hispanics into Collinsville is the greatest evangelistic and ministry opportunity in the church's history.

As far as the current Collinsville saga, I imagine that there is enough blame to go around. However, I do know that feeling cut off from one's community of faith hurts. The most meaningful observance of the Lord's Supper that I ever experienced took place around the kitchen table of a pastor friend who had been fired for no good reason 10 months into a pastorate. Bear in mind that, though Brer Fox can be a little abrasive at times, he is profoundly right about a lot of stuff. Bear in mind also that he has been hurt, and that he needs some good fellowship of believers to love him just the way he is.


ED: Thanks Lamar you make some good points in the post above. I have long defended Fox because he often makes some very good observations, however he does have some irritating methodologies such as string post one after another, with said post some times having little or no relationship one to the other. And rather often he dumps a post into an on going thread that has nothing to do with the point he wants to make. Then there is his penchant for name dropping. And his attempts to enlist the assistance of individuals who apparently have little or no interest in the cause he is touting at a given point in time. I have never had any form of close relationship to Stephen for a protracted period of time but I have encountered him at a couple meetings and have found him to be rather personable.
Of late more and more Participants have stated objections to Steve's apparent attempts to use this Site to promote his own agenda rather than participating in the discussions.

Perhaps he should start in own Blog since that is what he seems to be using this board for. For my part I have pretty much ignored his Collinsville stuff because to me it just is not interesting. And since I am not a moderator on this board any longer I do not have the responsibility to read the claptrap. I have done some selective editing of a few of his post when he seems to have pushed the envelop with his language. I have gone back at times to see what some one is complaining about and found language that had I read the post in a timely manner I would have edited it.

claptrap according to Webster
claptrap
Function:adjective
Date:1815

: characterized by or suggestive of claptrap; especially : of a cheap showy nature *claptrap sentiment
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Postby Mark » Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:31 pm

William wrote:What can one say? The insanitygrows...Wilkey sounds like Fox. Heaven help us. I'm glad we have the one Fox but one is all we need or can stand at any given moment...


What, if anything, do you disagree with in Wilkey's post, William?
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Postby Ed Pettibone » Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:44 pm

Mark wrote:
William wrote:What can one say? The insanitygrows...Wilkey sounds like Fox. Heaven help us. I'm glad we have the one Fox but one is all we need or can stand at any given moment...


What, if anything, do you disagree with in Wilkey's post, William?


ED: Well Mark, let go back to this comment at the beginning of Don's last post where he says "Just wondering where Sheila was during Rosa Parks and Judge Moore and what opinion she had on such a dramatic episodes in her state"
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Postby William Thornton » Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:03 pm

Mark wrote:
William wrote:What can one say? The insanitygrows...Wilkey sounds like Fox. Heaven help us. I'm glad we have the one Fox but one is all we need or can stand at any given moment...


What, if anything, do you disagree with in Wilkey's post, William?


I didn't say I disagree or agree with him. I said he sounds like Fox. Wilkey has never been shy about online gossip himself so I can see why he would defend Fox.

It's a onesided slap at the folks in his church. I like Stephen but wouldn't classify himself as a prophet. I classify him as my friend, BBQ lover, occasional informed gadfly, splendid writer (in his own way), and occasional nuisance.
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Postby Mark » Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:08 pm

Ed Pettibone wrote:Well Mark, let go back to this comment at the beginning of Don's last post where he says "Just wondering where Sheila was during Rosa Parks and Judge Moore and what opinion she had on such a dramatic episodes in her state..."



Granted, prophets should be rare, lest they cease to be prophetic. But I'm wondering how Wilkey's question is any different than asing a person something like "Did you personally experience events surrounding the SBC takeover, or did you simply read about it in a book? Do you have any thoughts about it?"

I'll conceede some degree of bias on this one because, as a Christian, I consider Roy Moore to be one of the most dangerous men in America. :o
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Postby Mark » Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:13 pm

William wrote:I didn't say I disagree or agree with him...


Imagine that. :wink: :D
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Postby Ed Pettibone » Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:45 pm

Mark wrote:
Ed Pettibone wrote:Well Mark, let go back to this comment at the beginning of Don's last post where he says "Just wondering where Sheila was during Rosa Parks and Judge Moore and what opinion she had on such a dramatic episodes in her state..."



Granted, prophets should be rare, lest they cease to be prophetic. But I'm wondering how Wilkey's question is any different than asing a person something like "Did you personally experience events surrounding the SBC takeover, or did you simply read about it in a book? Do you have any thoughts about it?"

Mark
I'll conceede some degree of bias on this one because, as a Christian, I consider Roy Moore to be one of the most dangerous men in America. :o


Ed: And your bias has nothing to do with your irritation at S.F. for using your Full name and location?????? :P
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Postby Jonathan » Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:08 pm

It appears that Sheila's OP has been lost in the all of the fawning over Stephen in this thread.

Here is what those of us non-native Collinvillians bl.com regulars know for certain:

1. Stephen has not been getting his way in an autonomous local Baptist church.
2. Said church has put up with, tolerated, etc... Stephen's persistance at being heard in business meetings, during testimony times, during Sunday school lessons, etc...often when what Stephen wanted to discuss had little to nothing to do with the church matter at hand.
3. At some point, Stephen's unwillingness to act in Christian fellowship (speaking prophetically all of the time makes for very poor fellowship) towards fellow members at this autonomous local church has resulted in the exhaustion of the toleration by these good folks.
4. The church acted out of its NT mandate to restore order/fellowship and disciplined Stephen.
5. Stephen has taken his fight with this local body to the internet and has spoken in very unChristian terms about members who have not been here to defend themselves.
6. Sheila, a first hand witness and faithful servant of the Lord in Collinsville has come to confront Stephen's often crude and vulgar characterizations...and, is largely dismissed by many forum regulars.
7. Collinsville church ain't the only church in a 50 mile radius of Stephen's home.

Unless I've missed something, the ball is in Stephen's court. He needs to decide if he is interested in a local church existing for something other than a platform for his issue du jour. The restoration of this fellowship is available to him but I'm sure that true repentance is required. Fox's recent action demanding that the church office print out one of his pamphlets so that he can, again, disrupt a Sunday school class toward his own agenda is probably not a good step in that direction.

In any event, I continue to pray for you Stephen and hope that you find that the Christian life involves way more than one's temporal political passions. The Gospel includes a love for the downtrodden and the less powerful...but the Gospel is way more than that. Love for your opponents is also there.
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Postby Michael » Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:46 pm

Jonathan:
Sheila, a first hand witness and faithful servant of the Lord in Collinsville


You know all of this to be true from ONE POST? I've been posting for quite some time and just surprised Wm with the news that I once was - for a brief time - a card-carrying (driver's license) Georgia resident. But you can verify this about Sheila from one post?

Not trying to be difficult, just a bit surprised given how well-thought-out your posts usually are.
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Postby Jonathan » Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:09 pm

Michael wrote:Jonathan:
Sheila, a first hand witness and faithful servant of the Lord in Collinsville


You know all of this to be true from ONE POST? I've been posting for quite some time and just surprised Wm with the news that I once was - for a brief time - a card-carrying (driver's license) Georgia resident. But you can verify this about Sheila from one post?

Not trying to be difficult, just a bit surprised given how well-thought-out your posts usually are.


Let's just say that I don't have first hand testimony that Sheila is a faithful servant. It could be that my sources are all wrong. I don't have reason to doubt all of them.
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Postby Hal Eaton » Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:48 am

One more opinion --

I have read (and, at times, endured) Fox's post on the forum. At the back of my mind has been the vague impression that his name was familiar to me.

I finally got verification of the source from one of Fox's referenced op-ed pieces.

In the early days of "Baptists Today," issues often carried stories by Fox. They were well-researched, rather brief, to-the-point, and crying out for the rest of us to be aware of serious basic problems facing us all with the "resurgence." I admired the evaluations offered, the blame assigned, and the calls to action therein.

I don't know if participants in the forum were aware of Fox's contributions from those earlier days, but I don't recall it having been mentioned. If his writing has become more belligerent, pugnacious, and limited to a smaller arena, it may well be due to his despair at seeing his beloved Baptist beginnings subjected to un-caring, benighted, clueless adherence to a run-away cadre of implacable leaders.

Assign his current methodology to psychological evaluation, if you will; just don't neglect genuine passion in commitment to truth as the underlying source of Fox's compulsion.

We shoulda paid attention earlier . . .
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Re: Uniformed Gadfly

Postby Sandy » Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:02 pm

sheila wrote:This may suprise you Steve-but,most Southern Baptists don't know and don't care who is in the Southern Baptist Hierchy-county,state,or nation or who wrote this or that book or article or who went to this or that convention or who is or is not a fundamentalist.

Sandy: Good point, and one with which I must agree.

shiela wrote:what the WORKING peoplewho actually practice what they claim to follow care about is this-Are those that are in a posistion of authority -who make choices that affect our denomination-are they truly in touch with god-and are they using his word as their guide?Beyond that we really don't care about conventions,politicking and self important little people -we are to busy WORKING for a living -taking responsibility -PRAYING for the believer and unbeliever alike and doing what God reveals to us through those prayers what he wants uds to do
-

Sandy: There seems to be some dispute among Southern Baptists these days as to what constitutes "His Word" and whether the Holy Spirit is a part of that. Aside from that, however, I would like to ask how one would know what the leadership of the SBC is up to if one didn't attend the conventions or participate in denominational life at some level? Since it seems that, over at least the past decade, fewer than one in ten SBC congregations have even bothered to send a messenger to the convention, it would seem that not caring about self important little people and what is going on in the SBC would have to go hand in hand.

That said, I think there comes a time when you decide to express your views with your feet, and just walk away. There are other options, and changing the mind of a Baptist congregation these days is probably one of the most difficult tasks that exists in Christian ministry.
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Thank you Sandy for that point

Postby fox » Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:22 pm

Yesterday in his sermon I heard Pastor Morgan say Jesus in the criterion for which the Bible is to be interpretted.
If I heard him correctly, I cannot see in light of the way most folks on this board and progressive Baptist life in general see the way BFM 2000 has been implemented with missionaries, that a Pastor with that view could call himself a Southern Baptist.
Maybe he could join me and Wayne Flynt and call himself a Baptist that lives in the South, but not a Southern Baptist.
I think Harold Bloom was right about that in American Religion. And from my correspondence with Ellen Rosenberg I think she agrees, at some point Words must have meaning and a community must have some consensus on that. And if that community has integrity seems to me they would send their money to folks whose language and their guiding documents mean the same thing or has some normative construct to it; otherwise you got something similar to 80,000 dollars worth of building on a 150,000 dollar outlay.
And mY Appeal to the manufacturers of this board, especially my friend Gourley and everything sacred about Mainstream Baptist Life in Alabama.
Let This Thread Play!!!!!!!!!!!1
Sheila has engaged the discussion and I am hoping mutual friends of Molly Marshall will come out of the shadows and engage their sisters in Collinsvillle.
Lot of the movers and shakers in the town and vicinity are lurking here. We have an outreach opportunity for Bl.com, getting to the grassroots, which I thought was the whole point to begin with.
Let is play. Let's take it to the people. While here, who knows they may take a look at what some consider more Noble and Virtuous Threads.
I HOPE SO!!!!!!!!!!!!1

I have done what I can to bring US Senator Shelby and his staff to the thread on Hispanic Justice Issues.
No time to Wimp out Now.

May be small time to others, but it is a Freedom Moment, even a Baptist moment in Collinsville.
Help me get back in my Momma's church and the Local Library :)

http://www.postpaper.com/foxoped.htm
Great link for some of you firstimers including church members I enlisted yesterday of the progeny of John Bulow Appleton and his great Baptist great grandson Jon of FBC Emeritus AThens Georgia.

Linking this thread to him shortly.

LET THE LIGHT SHINE :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: is my Plea
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Location: South Dekalb County Bama

Addressing

Postby fox » Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:57 pm

Some of Jona points from low page 1 or so

1This autonomous local Baptist church voted me out when I was not there in extreme circumstances in SC trying to make it through a cold winter. A bulleying letter to me from the fall of 2002 was not part of the discussion and to this day Miss Sheila's sister, the Lyberrian Jennifer Wilkins has maintained privileged status in the congregation refusing to appear in the same room with me before an impartial panel--that would include outsiders who she has not coaxxed or entangled in her political or family network in the town--with the anonymous party to discuss the charges she brought against me
A Nov 18 03 letter to the deacons goes unheeded where Stephen said he was willing to meet with anyone who came forward and had a grievance against him and would leave his differences off Bl.com till things could be worked out. But they voted me out

2)Stephen has been only heard in one business meeting since Jan 11 04 and that was the next one where he very humbly said he was voted out against his wishes he was voted out in absentia and he asked for the minutes of his dismissal, of said which to this day he has not received a copy.
3) On the most grievous occasion the lyberrian and one of her friends harangued me in the lyberry. I said that was not the place, she brought formal charges against me to the Myers brothers and that was where it should be brought up. She and friend got on my nerves and I said some unkind things about which best I remember I apologized for three years ago. That was in the wake of August 01 0r 02 persistence by the lyberrian to get me active in choir in August rehearsal, but I was trying to back off cause 8 years into it I needed a break cause in my view we were singing the same songs and not singing them much better. I love most of the choir members, but I was in the lyberry to do email and research, not hear a harangue about what sister Wilkins thought my activity should be in the church.
4) The church marauded any semblance of Scriptural guidelines about how to deal with a person of conscience who had put a lot of capital in bringing DAvid Currie, Kat Allen, Mark Bagget, Mel Deason and Suzzanah Raffield to the church to discuss local church congregation directiion. Best I remember Jim Evans was in the audience. Was a great moment which in my view after couple of the fundy hardliners discussed next or two days later at the American Cafe and as kindly as I can put it the preacher decided to cover his rear end and go pipsqueaking through the thicket. Not long after that Sheila's sister Ms. Wilkins was giving me the Jihad
AAAAAAAMIIIIIIInnnn!!!!!! and the preacher did one of his hysterical bits when I attempted to give flesh and blood to the struggle of women in ministry with a name of a product of Collinsville Baptist who is unashamedly and unequivocably in that movement: Stood up as she Did in the Balcony at Southern Seminary in 94 against Mohler when he was having his way with Her. Deacon Chair Brad Barksdale was in same HS class with the female in question. He was not present for that discussion, nor did he have the inclination to show up for the Currie Event Feb 24, 02
5)Sunday of this year in January I was about the only person in the SS class who had read Timothy George's pamphlet on abortion. I raised a point you can easily find on this board in that thread and the preacher said he would not allow the discussion of Baptist politics in that SS Class. and to take it somewhere else. Because time given to like discussions in the past had ended with many things unsettled, and the next week there was a new topic, I have been bringing lot of that to this Board, for which I am grateful is a Place Somewhere Else.
FTR, George said in that pamphlet: In a Loss of Vision section of George's diatribe Eric Mason of this board is now studying, on page 13 od the tract "...With these Historical lessons is mind, let me state the central thesis of this pamphlet: THE FAILURE OF THE SBC TO MAKE A TIMELY AND PROPHETIC RESPONSE TO THE HOLOCAUST OF ABORTION ON DEMAND REFLECTS THE LOSS OF THEOLOGICAL VISIION, RESULTING IN THE MALIGN NEGLECT AND DISTORTED UNDERSTANDING OF THE MOST BASIC DOCTRINAL AFFIRMATIONS WE PROFESS TO BELIEVE".

Seemed pretty strong to me, so while the Pastor's wife was still in the room, since she reigns in the church and I say this in all kindness and candor, like Betty Criswell did at the right hand of WA in Dallas, I asked the Pastor if knowing first hand at Southern like he did Paul Simmons and Molly Marshall should they have been pushed out of SBC life. That is when he asked me to take it somewhere else. I held my peace for the rest of the class only making one small point about reservations he had about an abortion essay from http://www.onajourney.org and an oped from Brandt Ayers of the Anniston Star.
Three years earlier when Casey Mattox of Boston Law and http://www.clsnet.org was present in class, things grew a little dicey.
Since January of this year, Pastor Morgan and Deacon Chair Brad Barksdale have reinforced the gag order and it now applies to Sunday School; so now I can't say anything in these next lessons coming up on Immigrant Issues
How 1) Convenient
and 2) outrageous cause with Matthew at Yale, I may be and forgive me for this the most informed person in the region on these matters, having as I have done in the last couple weeks, just Sat to be exact sent at email to Senator Shelby's staff appealing to him to bone up and follow the thread on this board concerning the matter.
Sheila, the first hand witness and faithful servant: Sweet Sheila who has been my friend in the past, Cussed me out in the Post office about 14 months ago cause I calmly called her sister a political animal and used the former mayor's testimony as reference. Since that tongue lashing I have tried to keep my distance though she did show up at Uncle Bill's funeral last April and had to give me a Hug. She loved Uncle Bill as did about the entire town including Brad's Mom and Dad.
Sheila and her sister Ms. Wilkins let her Dog Annabelle run wild in the lyberry earlier this year and delighted in it cause they knew I couldn't do a thing about it cause they would Misconstrue the situation, Lie and get me banned for Life, which they did couple weeks later and Susan Weaver was there and she has said to two people, nothing Happened.
I have said some bad words playing tennis in the 80's and a few times under my breath when Brother Mark Morgan of Duke tags me good in the face or chest or a thigh with one of his Duke Slams, but other than that have held my piece and not cussed anybody to their face, and to my best memory never in the Post Office in Collinsville, Alabama.
Will Campbell cusses a good bit.
Pray for Regeneration on that matter.
7) I think it was something about another church.
Red Etheredge and Ms. Wilkins and John Morgan III did a great job on the sanctuary renovation 10 years ago and it is pretty and the heat and air work pretty good there. I did a magnificent job in the Community Christmas cantata performed there in 01 with Brett Gifford and Jen Arthur who does a great impersonation of Ennis Del Mar in the balcony. I sang in a sextet with the Prince and His Momma, so there are some good memories. Martha is coming along on the Piano, and the Prince does a pretty good job with Whispering Hope, one of my own dear Mother's favorites.
Even if I never get voted back in, I think I can have my funeral there if I pay the 35 dollar outsider fee. Can have it there where Momma and Daddy had theirs. My friend Steve Miller, FU 81 said he would fly in and say a few words, and Currie one time promised the same thing. Some of Scott Erwin's friends said they will do their best with Who Will Sing one Song for Me.
Even though my Dad had a policy that everybody was invited to funerals, I would rather Ms. Wilkins and Sister Sheila not come to mine cause the lyberrian said the only reason she went to my Dad's funeral was to see if any of my Old Girl Friends showed up; and for some time she mocked My eulogy of my Dad of which I continue to be quite proud.
So Yall come join these sweet sisters in prayer some time. You'll get a blessing as Have I

Jonathan: Did I cover it all. My fingers are aching and it is lunch time.
Sincerely Mark of this board, not Mark Morgan. Thanks for the kind words in this thread. I think we are gonna be okay. I'll be in touch. Want you to come over in about 6 weeks if at all possible for an occasion I think you will find quite promising....To Be Continued
INFORMED GADFLY

Fox's Blog
fox
 
Posts: 3624
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:43 pm
Location: South Dekalb County Bama

Point Four

Postby fox » Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:03 pm

It was about Mohler having his Way with Molly Marshall. Local product stood up in the Balcony a lah the children in To Kill a Mocking bird, cause with Jean Louise, this Time a Woman Was a Passin.
Very proud to have a true sister in Jesus, one from Collinsville, Alabama stand in honor of Molly Marshall at Southern Seminary when Mohler was carrying out the fundamentalist agenda Sheila and her praying christian ladies here in Collinsville would just as soon wash their hands of in ignorance, like Pontius Pilate did with Jesus.
INFORMED GADFLY

Fox's Blog
fox
 
Posts: 3624
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:43 pm
Location: South Dekalb County Bama

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