A Surprise in the United Methodist Church?

[KeithE]

[Sandy]

I haven't heard much about "jettisoning," I've heard a lot of "let's wait to see what happens."

It is interesting that in spite of the fact that the UMC is an American-based church, it accords equality in the decision making processes to all of its parts. There's no patronizing of the non-Americans, no hoops to jump through or prominence which must be earned before being considered legitimate and apparently no attempts to manipulate votes or perspectives. It is what it is and there's a genuine recognition of it. If there is political maneuvering and attempts to wield influence and power, and no doubt there is in any religious organization, it's not having much of an effect on the way the UMC makes decisions, at least, not on the way most of the American leadership wanted things to go.

[William Thornton]

https://www.getreligion.org/getreligion ... ated-equal

This was the GetReligion story that I thought interesting. It's a delicate moment for the UMC seems to me, with the danger of rich, white, liberal Americans lecturing their poorer, nonwhite, African colleagues on morality.

[KeithE]

[Haruo]

[Haruo]

There certainly are parallels between the UMC situation over the last couple decades and the status quo obtaining in ABCNW prior to the creation of the Evergreen Region.

[Sandy]

[Tim Bonney]

[William Thornton]

Like I wrote, I don't have a dog I this fight. The getreligion reporter looks to me to be providing a bit more infor than the usual non-religion us reporters.

[Tim Bonney]

[Sandy]

The UMC isn't the only denomination having issues with polity built as structures were created and evolved.
https://baptist-blogger.com/2019/03/02/ ... e-part-ii/

[Tim Bonney]

[Haruo]

Maybe the NT doesn't prescribe a particular model of church polity and governance. But I think it's a good principle that Jesus is not in favor or a system that hurt the children.

[Tim Bonney]

[Haruo]

To paraphrase the gun rights bumper sticker writers, church polity models don't molest children. Child molesters molest children. If congregationalism is outlawed, only outlaws will be congregationalists.

[Tim Bonney]

[Sandy]

[Tim Bonney]

[Rvaughn]

[Haruo]

Free Methodists vary a lot on this sort of thing, too. My guess is the ones in Kentucky may be quite a bit more conservative/traditional in their views on gender and the Bible than those here in Seattle.

[KeithE]

[Tim Bonney]

[Haruo]

That's quite different from the Free Methodists one encounters here in Seattle. Seattle Pacific University is quite diverse, as is First Free Methodist Church across the street from the campus. And Rainier Avenue Church (the only other FMC I've been to) is about as diverse as they come. Now I am not sure how they treat LGBTQ type issues, but they certainly don't seem obsessed by the anti.

If you only have three bishoprics, three white males is not great, but also not diagnostic. The sample size is too small. They have female clergy.

And it's worth noting that the split from the main MC body/bodies in 1860 was not over abolitionism (as the "Free" makes a lot of people assume, given the date) but over the fact that the big-time Methodists sold (or rented) pews. The Free Methodists took sitting where you wanted to be biblical, and I agree. Pew space should be free, not up for bid.

[Haruo]

Nazarenes hereabouts are a whole lot more liberal than in a lot of parts of the country, too. Something about the water or something out here seems to do that to people's brains.

[Sandy]

My stepmother is a member of a Free Methodist church in Buffalo, NY. We've worshipped there several times. I would not call them "radically conservative," though compared to the UMC, they might be. Their statement of faith does not include inerrancy, but it does state belief that the whole Bible is spirit-inspired and that Christian interpretation must be spirit-illumined, as opposed to both tradition and experience which they believe can be affected by human error. There is a definite emphasis on holiness, and the whole atmosphere in that particular church reminds me a lot of the Church of the Nazarene. They dropped the use of the name "Methodist" out of their identification and signage under their former pastor who flat out said the terms "Methodist" and "growing church" are an oxymoron. My Dad, a Baptist deacon for over 40 years, did not convince my stepmom during the 5 years they were married that she could not lose her salvation.

The pastor of the CMA congregation which operated the school I served in Pennsylvania for eight years was an Asbury graduate, college and seminary, He was originally ordained in the Anderson Church of God and switched over to CMA about 20 years ago. He was also pretty heavy on holiness, and I would say that he was "radically conservative," uncomfortably so.

I wonder what kind of grasp Methodist leadership in the US has on how their parishioners in the pews feel about the issue. Timothy pointed out that 67% of the American clergy were in favor of the plan which would have allowed LGBTQ ordination and sanctioning of same-gender marriages, but the bottom line for the church's future rests with what will happen among the membership if the clergy takes steps to separate from the denomination and affirm the pro-LGBTQ position. Denominations I would consider more "liberal" on just about everything have fractured and experienced significant losses of membership. A friend of mine from Pennsylvania who was an Episcopalian priest and is now Anglican at a church in Washington, DC said the Episcopal church's statistics on the exodus of members is misleading in terms of its actual impact on the church. Their statistics show a decline of 40% in membership since they first ordained a gay clergyman, but he says that the 60% who have stayed includes over 800,000 "inactive" members. And they're still declining rapidly. Moving forward on something like this could have a huge cost.

There is a resolution and an answer for the church when it comes to how it should minister to people who are LGBTQ. It sounds cliche, but God has the answer and those who love and serve him need to get beyond their own reasoning power, intellect, prejudice and fear so they can be discerning about His will. Perhaps the Methodists, in working through this issue in their own church, will be the ones who come up with the answer.