CBF dissent on the [Baptist] Conf on Sexuality and Covenant

[William Thornton]

[Big Daddy Weaver]

[Haruo]

ABP is temporarily down, it says, so I can't read the opinions.

[William Thornton]

The lengthy relpy of Smith to you in interesting, Aaron, but I wonder if ABP would have carried his opinion piece if he named Leonard, Mason, and Gushee. One wonders if he has in mind also the CBF's immediate past Moderator,Colleen Burroughs, whose platform is an independent ministry, not a church, and whose parting comments as Moderator gave these discussions a pretty good jump-start.

[Gene Scarborough]

I don't understand the refusal to consider all the aspects of sexuality in light of new discoveries as well as biblical assertions from the Jewish perspective.

Jesus said nothing about homosexuality even though it certainly existed in his day and time as well.

It is real. It is here. The real question is whether we will attempt to understand it better and offer fellowship and love to those who are content in a same-sex relationship.

Personally, I applaude the willingness of CBF to confront this issue. It is my hope that scientific discoveries will surface so that all attending and those observing might be enlightened. It might just be that some biblical stuff surfaces as well like "love you neighbor as yourself!"

[Neil Heath]

I must remind us that the upcoming conference is not a conference on homosexuality alone, but on the much broader issues of sexuality in our culture and how the church should be related to them. There's been a lot of heat around this one topic, driven by politics as much as by theology IMHO, but there are more issues we need to be addressing as Christians than just that one. In fact, it's probably the issue faced least by the families in the pews of our churches, and so deserves less, not more, air time.

I would hope it finds a place in the program, but I also hope a lot of other things are on the table. And I hope it is only the beginning of our discussions, a chance to raise questions and talk about contributing factors, not an attempt to find solutions to such things in a day or two.

NH

[Big Daddy Weaver]

Yes, like how abstinence is preached to teenagers but rarely, if ever, is a moral instruction offered to divorced and unmarried adults who don't practice abstinence and who often live together.

Gushee has said this conference will avoid political questions - which is unfortunate as these are issues of social justice. But, it will be interesting to hear how Gushee deals with divorce without wading into political waters.

Gushee has probably devoted more of his personal time and energy to the issue of divorce than homosexuality. He's written a good bit on divorce, specifically "covenant marriage" and his proposals are political.

Most states have generally no-fault divorce laws - meaning a person can request a legal divorce at any point in the marriage and for any reason. However, in many - if not most states - fault can be considered in post-divorce legal settlement proceedings.

Gushee calls this "divorce-on-demand" and claims that "it should be viewed by all evangelicals as little more appealing than abortion-on-demand."

So, Gushee's solution is legal reforms that would make getting a divorce more difficult, require waiting periods, etc.

I don't want government overly involved in the marriage business. I don't want government deciding who can and can't get married (with some limited, obvious exceptions).

So, with that principle in mind, I'm not interested in government regulating strongly who can and cannot get divorced. Divorce is a serious problem, primarily because it disrupts families and children suffer. But I don't think we need government to be the enforcer of what is a religious "covenant."

I also don't think we need reforms that would likely have a decidedly negative impact on spouses in abusive relationships.

[Sandy]

[Big Daddy Weaver]

Which ones? I thought there were only 150 or so? That's the point you often like to make anyways...

[Gene Scarborough]

I appreciate the citing of "things sexual" which are far more than just homosexuality.

Most people like to dismiss and demean homosexuals---until their child comes up and says, "I think I am gay."

[Dave Roberts]

I asked some leading questions in our CBF Peer Learning Group, and there were about as many perspectives as there were people present. I think that speak to CBF.

[Gene Scarborough]

If CBF refused to address important current issues, would we not be doing the same thing now being done by the SBC refusing to deal with sexual molestation internally?

In the days of racial unrest and integration, the Pastors and the Home Missions Magazine Editor, Walker Knight, got all kinds of derision and anger because they discussed it openly. Walker Knight pointed to an Atlanta church working hard opening it's white membership to the blacks who were moving in and had become a majority in the community.

When we get so angry over a simple discussion of important sexual matters, it simply says we enjoy our prejudices as we did in the south pre-integration.

[Sandy]

[Gene Scarborough]

Sandy---

You are prone to exagerate and designate positions to everyone you view.

To call CBF folks "left wingers" is perjorative. My experience of Baptists in general is being left to right of centrist. Your giving of tags is the same as the CR folks who claimed seminaries were "liberal."

I had seen "liberal" as Thomas J.J. Altizer did his thing at Emory my senior year as I was President of our BSU. It was not even discussed nor taught at SEBTS in the 1967-70 "wild years" in the country when all was blowing apart over integration and the Viet Nam War. What I encountered was a balanced approach to theology and exposure to all things theological. The professors at SEBTS were teaching as colleagues who had various personal stances.

I there a problem with you over agreeing to disagree and being capable of working together despite some differences in theology?

[Sandy]

[KeithE]

[William Thornton]

[Gene Scarborough]

I just read over the program and am impressed. I wish it were closer by so I could attend.

Question to William: Since you are so close, will you go and see for yourself?

I would welcome a report and trust your honesty in all things.

[William Thornton]

[Gene Scarborough]

I have always been one to see for myself and hope you might change your mind. I seriously doubt boring details will make the news----only what promotes controversy.

[Sandy]

[Gene Scarborough]

Sandy---

Just like William, if you are really interested then go and see for yourself.

At this point I see nothing offensive in the topics nor leaders and anything said is pure speculation on our part!

[KeithE]

[Gene Scarborough]

I just hope William will go and give us a accurate report. I think we can trust him to be fair and balanced as well as accurate.

[Sandy]