BaptistLife.Com Forums.

When the fracture with the SBTC occurred, conservatives departing the BGCT cited its intention to partner closely with CBF, and to devote large amounts of budget receipts to the partnership projects. BGCT leadership was accused of actually planning to appropriate budget receipts from the churches to CBF apart from what it was already passing along through one of its budget giving plans. I'm pretty sure that was part of the plan, but at the time, churches were going over to the SBTC in droves, and that was a motivating factor. Eventually, the plan they put in place simply allowed churches to determine what percentage of their CP gifts would go to whatever national Baptist body they chose, CBF or SBC, or to keep it all in Texas if they wanted. Over 4,000 remaining BGCT churches have chosen an option which uniquely aligns them with the SBC, at percentages which average almost half of their total CP giving. Last time I read anything about it, there were about a hundred churches that were BGCT only, and about 70 that were CBF only, with about 200 churches splitting their giving between CBF and the SBC.

The SBTC is financially healthy, and it is very close to becoming the largest of the two state Baptist conventions in Texas. The last year I was in the state, more than 200 BGCT congregations switched affiliation, and more than 300 dropped their dual affiliation with the BGCT and aligned uniquely with the SBTC. The possibility of a closer relationship between the BGCT and CBF is a major factor in all of that. There are a number of BGCT leaders who have initiated an approach to bring the BGCT back closer to the SBC. That probably has a lot to do with the CBF state organization in Texas keeping a low profile.

I agree. I'm not sure though of the value of an organization that feels the need to keep a low-profile....

I attended the CBF Gathering this year, my first national meeting, and was largely disappointed. There was a tremendous amount of work and planning that went on for the three days of activity, but in the end, I was just kinda ehh about the whole thing. Kinda feel the same way about the leadership changes, ehh. People leave, it happens. Besides, I couldn't tell you what they did anyway or how they impacted my church, so ehh on the whole thing.

Ed: More of those CBF Women looking for a pastorate need to look Northward.

http://www.abpnews.com/blog/uncategoriz ... 012-08-20/
Aug 17, 2012 – The number of ABC/USA women pastors or co-pastors currently stands at 485.

The ABC also cannot make its churches call women clergy but I believe there are more women clergy in the ABC because the denomination actively promotes the Biblical nature of women's leadership. If the CBF wants to stay out of ALL doctrinal issues, what on earth is the CBF? After all aren't the concepts of Baptist freedom also doctrinal concerns?

Yes, those Baptist freedoms are real theological commitments, doctrinal ideas.

CBF has also taken positions on various social issues.

We don't have policy statements like ABC-USA or resolutions like SBC but our shared distinctives, common theological commitments are visible in various ways through the ministries of the CBF itself, CBF partners, at the General Assembly, CBF ministries, etc...

I'm not entirely sure what Matt means with that statement because the BGCT takes and has taken many more positions on theological and social issues through a very denominational process not unlike the SBC (and to some extent ABC-USA), with resolutions, a social ethics agency, and other similar entities.

Heck, the BGCT kicks more churches out than the SBC! So yea, they've established very very clear doctrinal parameters.

I don't think Baptists have special freedoms, any more than Americans have special human rights. What's at issue is the understanding of Christian freedom.

Agreed.

Daniel Vestal helped "convince" Calvary Baptist in Waco to call Julie Pennington-Russell.

That worked out pretty well. It's not like anyone is acting CBF or a CBF-partnered seminary to really and truly "convince" any church. Surely there is no problem with nudging a church that has already publicly affirmed their commitment women-in-ministry?

These aren't complementarians that need to be "convinced." These are people and churches who identify as egalitarians and in many cases have already ordained a female or had females preach from their pulpits AND even had a female serve as an associate pastor but just not yet called a woman to be the senior pastor....

The CBF is definitely much more decentralized that BGCT. CBF doesn't have control over partner institutions. But it's not like the BGCT has too much power over its many colleges and universities either.

I frankly don't see much value in the "denomination" question: is it or isn't it. Because all denominations are different.

And even though CBF is much more decentralized, it is still an organization that has annual business meetings where business is discussed and measures are adopted, etc. In that regard, CBF is no different than the BGCT which also conducts business at its annual meeting where "members" vote (same as CBF).

And speaking about Texas specifically, it's still a boys club. There is quite a bit of progress to be made in Texas. Even the anti-fundamentalist crusader David Currie - the leader of the moderate movement in Texas - wasn't exactly interested in a truly egalitarian Baptist denomination.