Burleson & McKissic to speak at midwest New Baptist Covenant

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Burleson & McKissic to speak at midwest New Baptist Covenant

Postby Mark » Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:54 pm

... in August of 2009. I was glad to learn, per BDiddy, that they'll be there. Does that mean, however, that McKissic is now willing to once again associate with groups such as the Baptist General Convention of Texas who won't officially adopt a statement on "inerrancy"?
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Interesting development indeed

Postby Stephen Fox » Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:38 pm

Here is hoping Gushee will pursue conversations rumored to be in the hopper with the likes of Ben Cole and Burleson and shore up the right end of progressive Baptist movement.
Will be interesting to see if some common ground can be found with Burleson, Anne Lotz, McKissic and the Baptist World Alliance.
That would be something, some real statement by the likes of Burleson.
Until that time I think Johnny Pierce has Burleson's number in his review of Burleson's IMB book.

I have the sense folks like Burleson and Adrian's son David Rogers and Ginny Brant are trying to find a way to say the fundy takeover of the SBC was wrong but can't find the words.
Anne Lotz could do a big thing if with her family in the BWA she led the way with these folks.

Randall Balmer will be giving three lectures in the Buddy Shurden series mid April at Mercer. Here is hoping some substantive conversations will be held during that time discussing Graham Lotz, Burleson, McKissic and possible common ground with the BWA.
Ben Cole can help formulate a statement that says the best of Baptist witness in America rejects the political creedalism of Richard Land and the machinations of Karl Rove.
NT Wright himself says religious right groped for the right thing, but chose the wrong issues and went about it in the wrong way.
Some common ground in the BWA would incarnate such a course correction the likes of Brant, Lotz and Burleson seem to be groping for.
Johnny Pierce can act as a facilitator to help them articulate such a move.
Here is a Shout Out to Bruce Gourley and the forces at Mercer with the Buddy Shurden lectures.
Don't be shy. Invite Anne Graham Lotz down for the Balmer lectures and have two days of intense conversation about the topic chosen for Balmer's three lectures. Could make some real history there is they have the cohonas to invite Lotz down for such conversation.
Invite Ginny Brant as well.
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Re: Burleson & McKissic to speak at midwest New Baptist Covenant

Postby Cathy » Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:06 pm

I made my reservations for this meeting. A couple from my church that I knew, but got to know better at the Atlanta meeting will be there as well. We are all looking forward to it. I assume that I will run into David Flick and Gary. Anyone else? I'll be hanging out with my friends, but hoping to say hello to a few BaptistLifers.
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Re: Burleson & McKissic to speak at midwest New Baptist Covenant

Postby Big Daddy Weaver » Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:42 am

I hope to be there. But I'm not sure as of yet. Between the honeymoon and mono, I haven't gotten much schoolwork done this summer and I've missed a great deal of work at my job.

I thought that Bruce Prescott would have had a booth promoting the upcoming meeting at the General Assembly. It was in Houston and over 1/3 of the folks present were Texans. I didn't see a booth nor did I see Prescott.

Perhaps Burleson will explain at this inclusive gathering of Baptists why he voted to oust Broadway Baptist Church from the Southern Baptist Convention and how that vote furthers any of the ideals or principles that the New Baptist Covenant claims to represent. Perhaps he'll explain how the posting of that fear-mongering Muslim Demographics video on his blog furthers the principle of Respect for Religious Diversity which the New Baptist Covenant claims to champion. And perhaps Burleson will discuss his divisive prayer from the floor of the Oklahoma Senate earlier in the Spring. No respect for religious diversity nor liberty of conscience there.

And finally, perhaps the organizers of the New Baptist Covenant meeting will explain how the selection of a person to keynote the event who doesn't represent well a set of simple inclusive principles furthers the goal of transitioning the New Baptist Covenant from a moment into a movement?

I now await Sandy to swoop in and give his long spill about how I'm not being inclusive here. So, let me say: All Baptists should be welcomed and encouraged to participate in the New Baptist Covenant gatherings. But all Baptists don't need to be put forth as leaders of a project that they can't wholeheartedly embrace.
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Re: Interesting development indeed

Postby David Flick » Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:39 am

Stephen Fox wrote:Here is hoping Gushee will pursue conversations rumored to be in the hopper with the likes of Ben Cole and Burleson and shore up the right end of progressive Baptist movement.
Will be interesting to see if some common ground can be found with Burleson, Anne Lotz, McKissic and the Baptist World Alliance.
That would be something, some real statement by the likes of Burleson.
Until that time I think Johnny Pierce has Burleson's number in his review of Burleson's IMB book.

I have the sense folks like Burleson and Adrian's son David Rogers and Ginny Brant are trying to find a way to say the fundy takeover of the SBC was wrong but can't find the words.
Anne Lotz could do a big thing if with her family in the BWA she led the way with these folks.

Randall Balmer will be giving three lectures in the Buddy Shurden series mid April at Mercer. Here is hoping some substantive conversations will be held during that time discussing Graham, Lotz, Burleson, McKissic and possible common ground with the BWA.
Ben Cole can help formulate a statement that says the best of Baptist witness in America rejects the political creedalism of Richard Land and the machinations of Karl Rove.
NT Wright himself says religious right groped for the right thing, but chose the wrong issues and went about it in the wrong way.
Some common ground in the BWA would incarnate such a course correction the likes of Brant, Lotz and Burleson seem to be groping for.
Johnny Pierce can act as a facilitator to help them articulate such a move.
Here is a Shout Out to Bruce Gourley and the forces at Mercer with the Buddy Shurden lectures.
Don't be shy. Invite Anne Graham Lotz down for the Balmer lectures and have two days of intense conversation about the topic chosen for Balmer's three lectures. Could make some real history there is they have the cohonas to invite Lotz down for such conversation.
Invite Ginny Brant as well.

Not bad, Fox... In a mere 338 words, you managed to drop 17 names 36 times... Nobody can beat you when you get on a roll... :lol:
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Re: Burleson & McKissic to speak at midwest New Baptist Covenant

Postby David Flick » Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:44 am

Cathy wrote:I made my reservations for this meeting. A couple from my church that I knew, but got to know better at the Atlanta meeting will be there as well. We are all looking forward to it. I assume that I will run into David Flick and Gary. Anyone else? I'll be hanging out with my friends, but hoping to say hello to a few BaptistLifers.

Yes, Cathy, you'll run into me. Hope you don't run me over... :wink:

I've had my reservations made for several months now. I'll be staying with my two daughters who live in Yukon, just a hop, skip & a jump from the Norman Convention Center.
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Re: Burleson & McKissic to speak at midwest New Baptist Covenant

Postby Mark » Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:34 am

Big Daddy Weaver wrote:Perhaps Burleson will explain at this inclusive gathering of Baptists why he voted to oust Broadway Baptist Church from the Southern Baptist Convention...

Not trying to promote thread drift here, but... Did he really?
Yikes. :o

Addendum: I notice where Wade discussed the matter prior to the vote, and later where he says the motion passed as predicted, but I don't see anywhere he says he supported its passage in light of what actually did (and didn't) transpire at Broadway.
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Re: Burleson & McKissic to speak at midwest New Baptist Covenant

Postby Big Daddy Weaver » Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:30 pm

If you read the post where he distinguishes Broadway's situation from the situation of JPR at FBC Decatur, you'll see this quote from Burleson:
"If in fact, it is reported that Broadway Baptist Church and her members are affirming homosexual relationships, I will vote to disassociate from Broadway."


Burleson continues:
"The Convention's action will be big news, particularly in light of President Barak Obama's push to overturn the 1996 Federal Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) which prevents the federal government from recognizing "gay marriage." However, the SBC has disassociated from churches that affirm homosexuality before, and we will simply be following our Constitution. You will be hardpressed to find Bible-believing, evangelical believers who would disagree that homosexual relationships are sin.
"

We know what the Exec Comm reported. I'm sure that Wade followed through with his promise. He seems to be an honest guy who doesn't break promises.
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Re: Burleson & McKissic to speak at midwest New Baptist Covenant

Postby Mark » Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:16 pm

BDiddy wrote: We know what the Exec Comm reported. I'm sure that Wade followed through with his promise. He seems to be an honest guy who doesn't break promises...

I agree with that. But wasn't there a discrepancy between what Broadway actually did, and what it was accused of doing? Surely Wade noticed that discrepancy, also.

But I see now what you were saying earlier: If Broadway was merely reported to have done such-and-such, then Wade said he would vote to disfellowship them. You were speaking about the Executive Committee's "report", and I was talking about whatever the church actually "reported" itself to have done.
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Re: Burleson & McKissic to speak at midwest New Baptist Covenant

Postby Ed Pettibone » Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:45 pm

ED: Elsewhere on these boards Wade said that he abstained from the EC vote on Broadway.

Aaron wrote "I thought that Bruce Prescott would have had a booth promoting the upcoming meeting at the General Assembly. It was in Houston and over 1/3 of the folks present were Texans. I didn't see a booth nor did I see Prescott."

Ed: Neither did I see a booth, promoting the upcoming NBC event in Norman but I did see Prescott. I have not processed the many pics that I snapped on our trip and at the Assembly but I do think I got a decent shot of Prescott, if so I will have Flick post it. I also think I have a couple of you. I will send those to David also.
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Re: Burleson & McKissic to speak at midwest New Baptist Covenant

Postby Big Daddy Weaver » Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:30 pm

Well, apparently Wikipedia does not.
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Re: Burleson & McKissic to speak at midwest New Baptist Covenant

Postby Haruo » Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:11 am

Big Daddy Weaver wrote:Well, apparently Wikipedia does not.

What are the alternatives? If it's a question of "So, is OK in the Midwest or the Rockies?" I would say, probably the Midwest. "Is it in the Midwest or the Southwest?" On the border. Is it in the Midwest or in Texas? Texas. etc. I think of it as being in the "Southern Plains", but what do I know, being from Washington, and a quarter Scandihoovian to boot?
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Re: Burleson & McKissic to speak at midwest New Baptist Covenant

Postby Cathy » Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:37 am

Texas is in the Southwest (but the west begins in Fort Worth). It struck me as odd that they called a meeting in Oklahoma the Midwest regional meeting. I think of Oklahoma as a state in the Southwest. If you have lived in the true South and then in Texas you know Texas with the exception of some of East Texas is not a distinctly Southern state.

Hopefully the Midwest will be kind enough to join us or reclaim their region name later for their own meeting.
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Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:58 pm

I got an art link for you nearby and Rock says you ought to take me up on it.

Parham dropped a lot of names in his write up of the Norman event and Prescott appreciated it.

Looks like you are the one lacking on the name thing

:lol: :brick:
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Re: Burleson & McKissic to speak at midwest New Baptist Covenant

Postby Ed Pettibone » Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:35 pm

Timothy Bonney wrote:
Cathy wrote:Texas is in the Southwest (but the west begins in Fort Worth). It struck me as odd that they called a meeting in Oklahoma the Midwest regional meeting. I think of Oklahoma as a state in the Southwest. If you have lived in the true South and then in Texas you know Texas with the exception of some of East Texas is not a distinctly Southern state.

Hopefully the Midwest will be kind enough to join us or reclaim their region name later for their own meeting.


I am sure there are plans for other meetings in the further north part of the Midwest. I thought I heard some thoughts about Chicago as a possible venue.


Ed: Tim there are indeed plans in the works for a Chicago NBC event. But Cathay has a valid point. See http://www.pba.com/images/regional/Regi ... idWest.gif
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Re: Burleson & McKissic to speak at midwest New Baptist Covenant

Postby Big Daddy Weaver » Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:09 pm

There has already been a "Midwest" regional meeting of the New Baptist Covenant. The "Baptist Border Crossing" was held in June in Liberty, Missouri. The event was led/organized primarily by Kansas City area Baptists.

This is from the Baptist Border Crossing website:

Baptist groups in Kansas, Missouri, Iowa, Illinois, Arkansas, and Nebraska were invited to participate in this historic event.


Arkansas is the only non-Midwest state invited to participate in this New Baptist Covenant regional.

Now, here is the list of "regional" speakers to the Midwest Regional held in Norman, OK:

Governor Brad Henry - Oklahoma
J.C. Watts - Oklahoma
Wilford Brown - Oklahoma
Sarah Stewart - Oklahoma
Wade Burleson - Oklahoma
Major Jemison - Oklahoma
Ellis Orozco - Texas (Dallas area)
Tim Eaton - Oklahoma
Javier Elizondo - Texas (San Antonio)
First Lady Kim Henry - Oklahoma
Fitz Hill - Arkansas (Little Rock)
Dwight McKissic - Texas (Dallas area)
Laura Cadena - Texas (Dallas)

Session Leaders
Mitch Randall - Oklahoma
Todd Littleton - Oklahoma
Wade Smith - Oklahoma
George Young - Oklahoma

There are a handful of workshop leaders not included in the list above. But, among the 17 Speakers and Session leaders, 12 are from Oklahoma, 4 from Texas and 1 from Arkansas.

There are a handful of non-regional faces that will be featured at workshops like Robert Parham and Pam Durso and Jimmy Carter and Hanna Massad as speakers.

So, yea it's a little odd that this meeting is sold as the Midwest Regional considering there does not appear to be one single person from the actual Midwest on the schedule as a speaker or session leader.

I am excited though about the inclusion of leaders from both Baptist University of the Americas and Bacone College.
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Re: Burleson & McKissic to speak at midwest New Baptist Covenant

Postby David Flick » Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:29 pm

Timothy Bonney wrote:It doesn't matter what they call the meeting to me but, I don't think too many folks who live in the Midwest would think of OK as Midwest. Friend Flick do residents of OK think of themselves as being from the Midwest?

I join Cathy on this one. I've always thought of Oklahoma as being Southwest. Maybe we're sort of on the line between Midwest and Southwest. Doesn't matter, though, I'm going to be there whatever it's called...
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Re: Burleson & McKissic to speak at midwest New Baptist Covenant

Postby Ed Pettibone » Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:26 pm

David Flick wrote:
Timothy Bonney wrote:It doesn't matter what they call the meeting to me but, I don't think too many folks who live in the Midwest would think of OK as Midwest. Friend Flick do residents of OK think of themselves as being from the Midwest?

I join Cathy on this one. I've always thought of Oklahoma as being Southwest. Maybe we're sort of on the line between Midwest and Southwest. Doesn't matter, though, I'm going to be there whatever it's called...


Ed: But David, would you try to track down where that silly "Midwest" designation came from. My hunch was some one was thinking of OK as being in or near the middle of the west. But never did I have a Geography, History, Government or Sociology class that included OK, let alone Texas or Arkansas in the Midwest.

In the first week that I attended Ouachita I made the mistake twice ( once at school and once at church) of referring to Arkansas as being in the south. Two corrections was all it took for me to learn to place "The Land of Opportunity" in the Southwest.
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Re: Burleson & McKissic to speak at midwest New Baptist Covenant

Postby Cathy » Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:53 pm

Just got a phone call from my church friends that were coming to the regional NBC with me. She has wrenched a knee today and can't walk. So I'm on my own, I've been trying to talk a kid into going with me. What age do you think can really get something out of this sort of meeting?
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Re: Burleson & McKissic to speak at midwest New Baptist Covenant

Postby Haruo » Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:15 am

Big Daddy Weaver wrote:Well, apparently Wikipedia does not.

And Wikipedia credits the US Census Bureau with originating the Regions it cites here.
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Re: Burleson & McKissic to speak at midwest New Baptist Covenant

Postby David Flick » Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:18 am

Thanks, Aaron, for listing some of the key personnel of the NBC in Norman. Several of those on the the program are friends of mine (as noted below).

Big Daddy Weaver wrote:Now, here is the list of "regional" speakers to the Midwest Regional held in Norman, OK:

    Governor Brad Henry - Oklahoma
    J.C. Watts - Oklahoma
  • Wilford Brown - Oklahoma: Native American pastor (Kiowa / Acoma tribes) of First American Indian Baptist Church (ABC-USA) in Hobart. Wil also serves as special assistant to the president of Bacone College. He is a close personal friend of mine. I have known him for around 30 years. We have pastored sister churches in two different associations. He nominated me to the board of trustees at Bacone College.
    Sarah Stewart - Oklahoma
  • Wade Burleson - Oklahoma: Lives here in Enid. Known quite well by all. I dropped by his office last week and expressed how pleased I was that he is going to be a speaker at NBC in Norman.
  • Major Jemison - Oklahoma: Was a fellow classmate of mine in the D.Min program at Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. I had a couple of seminars with him. He's a dynamic preacher.
    Ellis Orozco - Texas (Dallas area)
    Tim Eaton - Oklahoma
    Javier Elizondo - Texas (San Antonio)
    First Lady Kim Henry - Oklahoma
    Fitz Hill - Arkansas (Little Rock)
    Dwight McKissic - Texas (Dallas area)
    Laura Cadena - Texas (Dallas)

    Session Leaders
  • Mitch Randall - Oklahoma: Pastor of NorthHaven Church in Norman. A personal friend and colleague of mine. He's a member of the CBFO pastor support group of which I'm a part.
    Todd Littleton - Oklahoma
  • Wade Smith - Oklahoma: Pastor of the FBC in Norman. A personal friend and colleague of mine. (click on "Our Pastor" at this link) He's a member of the CBFO pastor support group of which I'm a part.
    George Young - Oklahoma
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