Moyers interview with Jeremiah Wright

[William Thornton]

[Wade]

It seems we have all taken our stance by now. I think those who still support Wright would do so regardless of what he says now. He can't say much worse than he already has. Those of us who believe we see through his act, cuteness, and grandiosity would not find worth in his effort now regardless of what good he could possibly do.

It is the strangest thing to see that it is a black leader that likely has kept Obama from being elected. I just do not see him beating McCain now ( )

[russ]

I guess mine is kind of a dissenting view from all the comments that have come so far on this topic. Surprise, surprise.

One, I don't think Wright will ultimately hurt Obama. Part of the evidence for this is how enamored of the Wright story the corporatized media are. This is age-old guilt-by-association, gotcha politics that requires no investigation, insight, or discussion from newspeople. Show a clip of a nut on a rant, and then shrug your shoulders and go live via satellite to three or four talking heads to yell at each other. Three or four segments of that, with some ads for dish soap...you got yourself a newscast. And then you've got another hour to fill tomorrow night.

This is an old story. Sensationalism. Politics as freak show. But the more exposure and discussion it gets, the more the truth will come out. And I think the truth helps Obama: this is a stupid, OLD fight - or stalemate - that needs to die and be forgotten. So, we either move on to the next generation of politicians, or we keep doing the same stuff - living in Wright's world. Nobody sees any similarity between Wright and Obama - or, at least, if they do, they haven't pointed that similarity out in any place I've seen. The truth that's coming out slowly is that Wright is the idealogical opposite of Obama, and the more you want to get beyond Wright, the more you need Obama.

But white folks like me who aren't terribly familiar with the history and culture of predominantly black congregations should take this as a learning opportunity.

I think there are two reasons Wright discusses this as an attack not on him but on the black church. One, he has a huge ego. But two is that a lot of the commentary has been about Wright's speaking style: how loud he is, how his body moves, how much cheering goes on in a sermon. I heard Republican strategist Ed Rollins on CNN the other day talking about Obama and Wright and saying something to the effect that Obama was once perceived as a safe black man, not a scary one, but now that we've seen video from the church where he attends, he seems like another scary black man.

And nobody, not Lou Dobbs, nor any of the other panelists (a couple of whom I think were black) challenged that comment, the intimation, at least, that the black church is scary.

So of course, with that kind of thing going on routinely on television, Wright isn't going to be the only one upset.

And I'm not sure where believers get off challenging someone on belief without proof, like Wright's assertions about the government spread of AIDS (which is obvious nonsense, but...). Isn't part of a pastor's job to spread stories that have no proof and very little evidence as "the truth?" Yeah, this particular story is especially offensive, but why are we expecting anything else out of a preacher? All I've ever heard in church is the retelling of myth and oral tradition as fact and truth. If that's the way a church is run in the first place, then let's have a little perspective when the the myth being perpetuated doesn't come from scripture but from paranoia. I mean, this is a church; just because something isn't factual or historically accurate doesn't mean it isn't "true," right?

And I think Wright has just done a better job of seperating himself from Obama than Obama could ever have done. When Wright's asked about Obama's remarks about Wright, Wright calls Obama a politician who says what he has to to get elected. Now, how many people who have seen both Wright and Obama speak are gonna come away thinking Obama is the one who has trouble dealing head-on with the truth? Please.

What Wright provides is a great opportunity for loudmouths (like me) to pontificate, for or against him, or for or against the other loudmouths. What Obama provides is a great opportunity to quiet down and get serious, and nod and smile at elderly whackos who's best days have slipped away behind them as we start figuring out how to, like, strengthen the economy to deal in a global village, rebuild a broken military, move beyond a dependence on fossil fuels, educate the citizenry, maneuver out of Iraq in a responsible way, see if we could maybe - I don't know - FIND Osama Bin laden and see what a court would have to say about him, gain back some friends around the world, ...........

[Stephen Fox]

[Jim]

Obama held a press conference this afternoon devoted to his "Wright problem." Obama is no fool and knows full well that AIDS and drugs have not been manufactured by the U.S. government to dispatch as many blacks as possible. He made a very bland statement yesterday evening upon his arrival at Wilmington, N.C., that was virtually meaningless. Overnight and through today, he has begun to realize from the polls and e-mails, apparently, just how much Wright's performance yesterday has hurt him. Also, at least as he said, he has now viewed a recording of Wright's performance, including the even more damning q/a period. So…he has begun to try to "bridge the gap," as he would have it.

Unfortunately, he did not have a prepared statement (or I didn't hear that part if he did) and he is wont to stumble during any press briefing, but today was exceptionally bad for him, not so much in substance (denouncing of everything Wright says) but in simply not finding the right words to express himself. It came across that he was dancing a fine line between hanging on to his nearly unanimous black vote and distancing himself as far as possible from the reverend, who is Sir Galahad to a huge segment of the black community. There's real, abiding hate out there, and Wright is working it for all it's worth.

I felt sorry for Obama because he's so completely caught between a rock and a hard place and was so inordinately hesitant in simply separating himself once and for all from this egotist preacher, whom he characterized as finally caricaturing himself yesterday, though I believe Wright was not doing that yesterday…he meant everything he said and has been preaching that garbage for years…the real nasty Wright, no caricature. Obama was wrong to try to spin it that way…yet another defense, though unintentional probably, of Wright, who is without shame. Obama did indicate that Wright had disrespected him in the politician/preacher thing, another way of saying Obama lies while Wright tells the truth.

[rickwright01]

People I know and respect - intelligent, well-meaning people - have defended Jeremiah Wright. We need to "listen to him more carefully... in the context of the 'black church'". And without doing more research - heck, can't cover everything - I thought "gosh, must have a point" and have cut the man some major slack.

But even good liberals are turning on Jeremiah Wright and his efforts to "defend and explain himself" which if anything have only made things worse. I am stunned that Robert "I wish he were on someone else's team" Parham has actually offered critique. That's pretty dang telling.

[Wade]

I also feel sorry for Obama. He can't win on this one. He so carefully has to choose his words, he looks paralyzed. The only way to buy back some respect with most of America is come out and say that he is angered and disappointed with Wright's response to all this. This will cause some of the black population to feel betrayed. Maybe we do truely have "two" Americas. The problem is if people like Wright expect the government or the democratic party to fix the turmoil inside the black population--- the anger will continue. People are "fixed" by what happens inside their own heart, finding peace even with all that is wrong regarding the injustice of the past and the continued struggle. As long as Wright continues with the delusions that he was a slave, this "conversation" is going no where.

[jerryl]

[Wade]

[Stephen Fox]

Auburn Grad takes measure of Wright and Obama:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics ... 04-29.html

And how much of the SBC's hand, the "values vote" did Danny Burk tip with this opinion and will Richard Land nuance it's political effect at all.
Will Richard Jackson speak to it?

http://www.bpnews.net/BPFirstPerson.asp?ID=27953

[Jonathan]

[Mark]

[William Thornton]

[Jim]

This is from biography.com: After working at Business International Corporation (a company that provided international business information to corporate clients) and NYPIRG, Obama moved to Chicago in 1985. There, he worked as a community organizer with low-income residents in Chicago's Roseland community and the Altgeld Gardens public housing development on the city's South Side. It was during this time that Obama, who said he "was not raised in a religious household," joined the Trinity United Church of Christ.

It would appear that Obama has known or known of Wright far longer than he has indicated. He moved to Chicago, according to this bio, during the year after Wright and soul-brother Louis Farrakhan made their famous (infamous) trip to Libya to visit with the world's top terrorist at the time, Muammar Qadaffi (remember PanAm 203). Twelve years later, Qadaffi pledged $1 billion to Calypso Louie and the Nation of Islam. This is what Farrakhan said, according to the New York Times: "We are not terrorists,'' Mr. Farrakhan said. ''We are not trying to do anything against the good of America. What we want to do is good for our people and ultimately good for our nation.'' Even then, terrorism was on the mind of Farrakhan and Qadaffi (and Wright?).

More from the bio: After law school [1988-91], Obama returned to Chicago to practice as a civil rights lawyer, joining the firm of Miner, Barnhill & Galland. Obama knew all about Wright and actually admitted it when he struck the preacher's appearance from giving the invocation at his glorious announcement for the presidency, simply stating that his sermons were "rough." Obama knew all about the garbage Wright had been spouting for years but wanted a religious aspect, especially for the black church-folks, to be part of his campaign. How many other candidates have had an invocation at their announcements?

Obama has done the politician knee-jerk, otherwise known as "lie and cover-up." The fact that he knew all about Wright, including the Libya trip, which had to be a great topic of conversation and in the news, but figured no white folks would have a clue or would care anyway, speaks volumes, and now his chickens have come home to roost. His other associations are quite interesting, too, such as those with William Ayers (even worse than Wright) and his cousin Raila Odinga, prime minister of Kenya. A sketch can be seen here: . Obama is a pathetic figure, but if he had come clean right at the beginning he would be out of the woods. As it is, he just "amened" Wright and let the good times roll on. Now, he's paying the price for duplicity.

[KeithE]

[William Thornton]

[Norm]

Expectations for candidates are usually high, too high, and in time, ALL presidential candidates and ALL presidents FAIL to rise to these expectations. Nothing UNUSUAL about the Obama situation concerning expectations. The more realistic the expectation, the greater the potential satisfaction, assuming functional behavior.

Obama has NOT lost anything from the McCain camp (and driver of the criticism against Obama) and lost very, very LITTLE over Wright I. In Wright II, he will lose very, very, very little, if at all, and in fact the net effect may be a small gain. BUT it will come up again in the general election and will NOT be any more an issue for him than Hagee WILL be for McCain. In the end: WASH (but hopefully a growing resentment for irrelevant religious issues and those derived from such that are draining the energy we need to address REAL problems). If republicans are going to cry foul over Obama's choice of friends and his loyalty to them, they might first conduct a come to Jesus meeting concerning W and his buddies.

[Mark]

[Wade]

TIC alert (sort of): Has anyone else noticed that the "reverand" Wright looks a whole lot like Red Foxx. I keep thinking we're going to see Wright grab his chest and say, "Here I come Elizabeth, this is the big one".

[rickwright01]

[Hal Eaton]

Lest we forget - - - Here is Chris Astle's response to my suggestion in a previous thread that, while the Constitution proscribes a religious test for public office, the public routinely demands that such a test be made.

Chris's response: "I'll make a deal with you, OleDad. The next time either of us runs for public office, we will refuse to answer any questions about our religious beliefs or church affiliations. Such questions should not be asked. they should not be answered."

'Nuff said.

[William Thornton]

[Jim]

KE: Moyers sought to understand Wright.

J: Unless this was simply posted for just the sake of argument or an effort to extricate Obama from his difficulty, it bespeaks exponential naivete. Moyers, despite the fact that he was palmed-off on the public by the NBCC as a Baptist before being suddenly pulled from the speaker-list last year, has been a member of Wright's denomination for 40 years. He and Wright are soul-brothers, joined at the hip with a disdain for this country that is virtually psychotic.

It's precisely because Moyers understood Wright only too well that he tried to purge the preacher publicly, thus cleansing Wright's heavy hand, held on Obama, who also knew the preacher only too well. I wouldn't be surprised if the three of them cooked up the whole PBS charade. By not asking Wright anything of substance, Moyers tried to use fluff to sanitize him, figuring, as all elitists do, that the ignorant public could be easily bamboozled. It didn't work not least because Moyers was so naïve himself that he played longer versions of Wright's rants to prove his and the preacher's point that Wright is among the most angelic of the species, the longer versions proving Wright's superior intellect. All the stuff about "black liberation theology," for instance, was part of the deal for the cognitive benefit of the ignorant among us, but neither M nor W mentioned its keystone – reparations.

Wright undid Moyers, who should have seen it coming, in his performance in Detroit at both the NAACP convocation and the alleged press conference, which Wright turned into a garish self-serving circus. He particularly enjoyed driving the white-lady convener into the ground. He showed himself as on a look-at-me par with a high school sophomore, with his preening, silly mugging, and hippy-dippy body language. I watched it all.

KE: After a bit of research I too do not believe there is anything to the guvmint (as William puts it) introducing HIV/AIDS –

J: Well….that does it…no one need to wonder any longer…the oracle with the proper input of data has settled the issue. Wright probably got his damnation-of-the-USA jollies from the well-documented Soviet propaganda of the 80s having to do with the evil USA fashioning all kinds of disease to kill folks. Gorbachev put an end to it in the late 80s. That stuff still goes on, though.

KE: but I looked into it before making that knee jerk reaction (maybe ya'll did so as well but I doubt it).

J: Yeah…we're hopeless…even have trouble finding our cars in the mall parking lots. My knee-jerk reaction to that is lying to my wife and telling her it's been stolen. But keep the doubt alive since the ignoramuses out here in the boonies need an alert occasionally when our cognitive resources are perhaps suffering from global warming and other atmospheric pressures.

KE: Besides, 9/11 was quite possibly a commandeered strike planned by Al Qaeda but overtaken by some other entity.

J: Yeah…it was Wright and his sidekick Farrakhan, along with Bush, Cheney and the Boy Scouts. W & F got their laughs; B & C got the oil profits for/from Halliburton; the Boy Scouts got revenge for being kicked out of Philadelphia over the homosexual thing. That's it…isn't it…that other entity? The scouts commandeered those planes…no doubt about it.

[William Thornton]

[russ]

rickwright has questions. I have responses.

People under thirty seem to me to be mostly bewildered by the hullabaloo around some old preacher. Most of us can't recall meeting an old preacher who wasn't at least a little loony.

Obama could've done things differently from the start, sure. Who knows how it might've turned out? But I think he's explained thoroughly in Philadelphia why he did what he did.

Which brings me to some of the posts here. I think Jonathan takes the position that Obama's a politician first, duplicitous, and has been using language as cover for what's really been going on. An understandable position. But one has to assume from the start that Obama simply doesn't mean what he says because there are plenty of falsifiable statements that haven't yet been proven false. Obama says he wasn't around for the craziest preaching. I believe him until somebody produces a tape of him in the pews listening to it. Jonathan disbelieves him and doesn't seem to be open to giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Some people keep trying to defend Wright. Noble. He seems to me like a mostly good man who has gone off the rails as he's aged. I've seen that a lot. Frankly, some of the older folks on here sound as loud and paranoid as Wright to me. But I think Wright put himself mostly beyond defense with his latest antics. In a moment when he could've come to us the way Obama did in Philadelphia, he tried to put on a show that starred his own righteous self. And it was sad.

If Obama had walked away from Wright before beginning his Presidential run, he may have had an easier time of things or he may have been called out for an obvious politically-motivated distancing. But either way, I don't think Obama would have been happy with himself for breaking that relationship off just for politics. I think Obama loves the old guy. If I were running for President, I wouldn't want many of the things my own father believes to be judged as my own philosophy. But I couldn't walk away from him. And I think the unfathered Obama couldn't walk away from Wright until Wright walked away from him.

And whatever Obama had done at the beginning of his campaign, the videos of Wright would still have come out. Hannity and O'Reilly would still have played them nonstop. Reporters would still have asked Obama about the twenty years he spent there. Some religious leaders would probably have ridden Obama for leaving the church when he began his campaign, even though Wright was retiring. I'm not sure it would've made for an easier path. And we probably never would've gotten that great speech in Philadelphia which was the high point in American political oratory of the last decade or two. So that would've been a loss for all of us, I think.

All that and William's Youtube link is the funniest post so far are my thoughts.