Lest We Forget Hillary's Methodism

[Stephen Fox]

Check this:

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfa ... stump.html

[Haruo]

Yes, following closely in the footsteps of "John Wesleyen", one of the founders of her branch of Methodism... I am not clear on whether Donnelson is in Iowa or New Hampshire.

Haruo

[Prentice Fox]

INDEED, There certainly is a Method to Hillary's Madness. As Claire Hoffman points out in the article; it could well be more than just "COINCIDENCE" THAT HILLARY'S SS TEACHER JUST "HAPPENED" to be there. Methodism? I think so; in its truest form. Nothing Hillary does is incidental. There is a powerful plan behind it all, including her Oscar-winning Emotional moments, and her Amplified Anger. Hillary will get the national women vote; but not in SC where the Daughters of the Confederacy will speak with a loud voice. The only real question for the S. Carolina Dem Primaries is: Will they overcome their racial prejudice or will they overcome their gender bias??? In the meantime, old Fred Thompson plods solidly on in his pilgrimage, just like his fellow Tennessean Carlyle Marney plodded; One Day at a Time. Prentice

[Mark]

[Prentice Fox]

In the Confederacy, the women stayed home! Not on the front lines. That was reserved for the Men. This is indeed a tough situation for "Hil" in that the year for which she has long planned to run as the first serious woman candidate for POTUS; Barak Obama runs as the first Serious Black candidate. As I said, Sexism or Racism? Which will win in SC? Prentice

[Stephen Fox]

I have some thoughts on this matter but they haven't crystallized yet.

However would be interesting to explore the thoughts of the Leland Inst on this matter, the religious character of Hillary's run.

And John Pierce's great current lead opinion piece for the January Issue of Baptists Today on Pulpit Committees and Transitions may be appropriate as part of this discussion but I may need to think about it some more or take it to another venue.

[Prentice Fox]

I believe that the subdued sexism of the South ("Man is the Head, woman is servant", philosophy) will triumph over the still dormant and residual Racism. The peripheral elements of the far left (not many in SC) and those of the Far Right will be vociferously vitriolic(caustic and scathing criticism) in their vulterine verbalizations of their own distinctive "Values" and "Virtues". In other words, I believe that Obama will win and Hillary will come in 2nd place (by a nose, hers and not Bubba's) in the SC Democratic Primary Race.. If this does happen, then John Edwards will be put out to Pasture, and go back to his farm in Wake County, NC; and listen to the voices of "Two Americas." Prentice.

[Prentice Fox]

Tim Russert had a Strong Interview with "Hil" tonight on MSNBC, while the Cowboys were losing. Tim asked some straight questions about Bubba calling Obama's strong rise to Fame a "Fairytale." Hillary tried to dance around the question, but Tim held her feet to the fire. I believe in about another week, Hillary will have another "crying spell", probably about the poor treatment she received in South Carolina. Obama may win there; but this ball game is a long way for being over. Edwards will probably drop out after he loses the NC primary in May. Prentice.

[Stephen Fox]

even with Meet the Press in The Bucket, you misrepresent what Bill was saying.
Bill was talking about Obama's version of Obama's history in the Senate over Iraq votes; calling that a Fairy Tale; not Obama's personal history.
The context of the matter, just like immigration politics, makes all the difference in the world.
The Birch Society and its methodology took a setback with the passing of WA Criswell.
Me and the Ware Brothers know that; Bill Moyers and Governor Richards.
Let's take the High Road with them

From the Transcript:

MR. RUSSERT: It just isn't at Senator Obama who is taking offense. This is exactly what President Clinton said in Dartmouth. Here's the tape.

(Videotape, Hanover, New Hampshire, Monday):

PRES. BILL CLINTON: Give me a break. This whole thing is the biggest fairy tale I've ever seen.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: Congressman James Clyburn of South Carolina, who's neutral...

SEN. CLINTON: Mm-hmm.

MR. RUSSERT: ...said this, "To call that dream a fairy tale, which Bill Clinton seemed to be doing, could very well be insulting to some of us."

SEN. CLINTON: Tim, let me--let me just stop you right there.

MR. RUSSERT: But, no...

SEN. CLINTON: No, wait a minute.

MR. RUSSERT: No, I didn't stop you. Let me just go through...

SEN. CLINTON: No, but you did not give the entire quote and so...

MR. RUSSERT: No, but you...

SEN. CLINTON: The entire quote was clearly about the position on Iraq.

MR. RUSSERT: But I'm...

SEN. CLINTON: It was not about the entire candidacy. It was not about the extraordinary, you know, abilities.

MR. RUSSERT: But Congressman--but Congressman Clyburn has been covering this race. Donna Brazile, herself a longtime activist in the Democratic Party, this is what she said. Here's Donna Brazile.

(Videotape, Tuesday):

MS. DONNA BRAZILE: As an African American, I find his words and his tone to be very depressing.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: So these are people who are not supporters of Obama, who are listening. Let me just go to the Martin Luther King thing because you had your opportunity to talk about this at the beginning of the show and I want to lay this out for our viewers. This is how The New York Times categorized it. "In an interview with Fox News on Monday, Mrs. Clinton ... tried to make a point about presidential leadership. `Dr. King's dream began to be realized when President Johnson passed the Civil Rights Act of '64.' Mrs. Clinton said in trying to make the case that her experience should mean to voters than the uplifting words of Mr. Obama. `It took a president to get it done.'" Again, Congressman Clyburn, "We have to be very, very careful about how we speak about that era in American politics. ... That bothered me a great deal."

A writer in the Washington Post today, a black woman said it's as if you are minimizing "I Have a Dream." That you're saying it's a nice sentiment, but it took a white president to get blacks to the mountaintop.

SEN. CLINTON: Well, you know, I...

MR. RUSSERT: That's her take.

SEN. CLINTON: I understand the taking out of context and the mischaracterization. I've spoken with Congressman Clyburn. I have spoken with a number of my very strong and adamant supporters, but Tim, I can't let you get away with that mischaracterization and those snippets. I was responding to a speech that Senator Obama gave in New Hampshire where he did compare himself to President Kennedy and to Dr. King. You know, President Kennedy served in the Congress for 14 years, he was a war hero. He'd been engaged in many of the battles that led to his election in the 1960 election. Dr. King had been on the front lines. He had been leading a movement. But Dr. King understood, which is why he made it very clear, that there has to be a coming to terms of our country politically in order to make the changes that would last for generations beyond the iconic, extraordinary speeches that he gave. That's why he campaigned for Lyndon Johnson in 1964. That's why he was there when those great pieces of legislation were passed. Does he deserve the lion's share of the credit for moving our country and moving our political process? Yes, he does. But he also had partners who were in the political system.

And I think it is such an unfair and unwarranted attempt to, you know, misinterpret and mischaracterize what I've said. Look at what I've done my entire life. I have been working on behalf of civil rights, women's rights, human rights for years and I know how challenging it is to change our political system and I have the highest regard for those who have put themselves on the line. You know, Congressman Clyburn was part of that movement. So many of the people whom I admire in my country who have given of themselves to make these changes went into politics in order to realize the changes, worked to elect people in order to make the changes.

You know, this is, you know, an unfortunate story line that the Obama campaign has pushed very successfully. They've been putting out talking points, they've been making this, they've been telling people in a very selective way what the facts are. And I'm glad to have the opportunity to set the facts straight.

And the whole thing can be read at:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22634967/

[Stephen Fox]

It is up at Today's http://www.tnr.com website:

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html? ... 5b7c4d0d0c

Wish I could think as well as I was thinking just a couple years ago and I would read Wilentz's book

[Prentice Fox]

A huge AP Headline in news today is the story of Hillary "Worshipping" and speaking at a predominantly Black Presbyterian church in Columbia SC, where 11 AM Sunday is still the most segregated hour of the week. Was she worshipping? Was she campaigning? The questions are not automatically mutually exclusive, but certainly present the aura of the latter !! In the meantime OBama was "Worshipping" at a Pentecostal Church in Vegas. No UCC black Value Churches there, either?? Both Hillary and Obama cross the Racial barriors when it is expedient; and is helpful to their cause. Huckabee, in the meantime, preaches a sermon, as guest Baptist preachers often do, at an SBC church in Spartanburg SC. Prentice

[Stephen Fox]

Here are some thoughts from an analysis of Hillary's current predicament; it went up at 2:27 thereabouts this afternoon at the NY Times:

It must be a kind of nightmare for both Clintons to be running, at this moment, against a talented black man, to be caught in an existential choice between losing their mythical status in the black community or possibly losing to a candidate they feel certain does not deserve to win. But only they can afford to be concerned right now with their own historical legacy, about seeing all that they have accomplished on behalf of their party and its commitment to fairness and equality blown away in the space of a few months. No one else is going to protect all that for them. No one around them is going to take the long view, because that’s not the way supporters think.
No one expects Mrs. Clinton to stand down and let Mr. Obama make his case unchallenged. She could, however, send a clear message to the cogs in the machinery she’s built that there is a line she will not cross. She could tell her Nevada allies that the job of the Democratic Party she grew up in is to make it easier for people to caucus, not harder. She could tell Robert Johnson that he needs to apologize, the same way she forced Bill Shaheen, her New Hampshire co-chairman, to resign last month. She can make it plain to all those people trying to get jobs in the next Clinton Administration that there is way to win—a rough and combative way, even—that nonetheless won’t destroy all the good that the Clintons, at least for a lot of Democrats, have come to represent.


Sfox> Prentice: In all good intent it seems to me that where you are and the influence of the faith community to which you belong, the more virtuous questions would lie elsewhere than at the nitpicking you consistently traffic in against the Clintons, and less often OBama.
A good place for you and the Ware's to explore with your faith Community on the 95 corridor, seems to me to be framed by Bruce Prescott, and to a greater extent as I have trumpetted ad nauseam these last several weeks, Garry Wills on the Rove Era in Head and Heart.

[Prentice Fox]

Steve, you make some good points here on "Hil" and "Bamo". Certainly Hillary is not down for the Count; but she looks tired. Obama seems more energetic every day. In a couple of months, I will have the privilege, THANKS TO AMERICAN SOLDIERS, to vote for one of them (I have already ruled out John-Boy, like most other Tarheels have) Right now, it is looking like Hillary has the edge. Barak doesn't have the experience that Hillary has. As Bubba said, "It's a fairytale." After I have complied with my Democratics Duties; I will register a vote in November, like Martin Luther did, according to my conscience!! Stephen, On the Ware matter, (Browning was a great man) and other personal issues "on the I-95 corridor"; please PM me on that, instead of the public arena here.. So far, the moderators at Baplife have been very lenient in this area. But, sometimes they take a 2nd look at foul shots, just like in the NFL. Prentice.

[Stephen Fox]

like Randall Balmer, Marsh, Frady and Kimball is a public figure. And with all the influence of FBC Austin and the Marney legacy there to consider how he tact in regard immigration reform would seem to me to be a fair matter for discussion on this board.
Other than that, Bruce Prescott has some interesting thoughts on Harold Bloom today at his Mainstream Baptists Blog.
I have to believe Prescott today raises a matter Marney, and by association Browning, would be strongly engaging were they with us today.
Marney thought a lot about TS Eliot's Wasteland if I am not mistaken. Prescott with Bloom engages a topic of similar weight today.
Invite Broadman to the board; would be interesting to explore some topics with him.

[Prentice Fox]

on Oct. 29, 2002. From his deathbed, Ware jokingly told his daughter that his last column should consist of just two lines: "I've always wanted a cabin in the high country. Now I've got One."(p.233 of Diary of a Modern Pilgrim.) Stephen, regarding my inviting his brother Broadman to join us on the board(as you suggested), I will do that and you may invite Rev. John Morgan to join us on the board. It, as you say, "Would be interesting to explore some topics with him." He may bring some balance and insight into church and national problems like illegal immigration. Where does John stand on this issue? Prentice

[Prentice Fox]

"Bill", as Hillary calls him, is beginning to feel the heat of this POTUS campaign and his temperature is rising; according to the latest polls. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22722130 In this article from MSNBC news, W'J.'s outbursts do not help Hillary's Campaign. It almost makes one wonder. Whose side is Bill really on here?? Could he want secretly to retain all of the Clinton Legacy for himself? All in all, when everything is said and done; Hillary may be a better woman than Bill is a better man. The jury is still out, and no verdict yet.

[Stephen Fox]

from Greenville news"Our position is that she voted for the war, Barak was against the war," Harpootlian said. "Somebody needs to ask the question, why are you doing to Barack Obama what the Republicans did to y'all and you bemoaned it as the politics of personal destruction."

Harpootlian said he is a longtime supporter of the Clintons and is now convinced that "Bill Clinton loves his wife more than he loves his country and this is all about continuing some kind of Clinton dynasty as opposed to doing what I believe is best for the country."

He said Republicans attacked the Clintons for actions that had occurred 15 years before Clinton's campaign for the White House, just as Clinton is now doing to Obama.

"To see them use those same tactics is to me reprehensible," he said.

Check back with GreenvilleOnline for more details of Clinton's visit.

[Prentice Fox]

WAS CONCEPTUALLY CLEAR in last night's debate with Obama, as she came out punching and swinging. But Obama reminded her that she was on the Corporate Board at Walmart when he was helping poor people in Chicago. I believe Hillary's "Methodism" boomeranged on her; and she wished she had picked a fight with little Johnny Edwards instead, even though John was in his home state.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Prentice Fox]

Thanks for the info, Ed. I'm sure there are many, many Methodists who are not supporting either Hillary's Methodology or her own particular brand of Methodism; and I thank God for That. Also, there are many Baptists who do not support Huckabee's sense of Baptist ecclesiology. Freedom is a wonderful thing!! Any way, I thought there was an 8 year limit to living in the White House. She talks about her "35 years experience." Doing WHAT?? I publically announce herewith that on the day of the Dem Primary Election Day in the Sovereign State of North Carolina,, I will either vote for Barack or John, probably Barack.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Prentice Fox]

ED: "Your thinking is a bit fuzzy." Prentice: "Your thinking is a bit facetious." Hillary can find herself a different landlord than the American People THIS YEAR. She took too many Prized Posession out of "The House", when her last lease was over. IT IS NOT A GOOD real estate practice to lease to a thieving tenant a second time.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Stephen Fox]

About Retired Air force Chaplains and Rumor Mongering, Ed.

I appreciate it. It is a most timely assertion

Thank you

sfox

[Ed Pettibone]