Privatized Religion

[JE Pettibone]

[KeithE]

[JE Pettibone]

Ed: I am not sure if it was Robert or Dave who said "The only distilled beverage native to the United States is bourbon."

However, for the sake of accuracy, searching for an authoritative reply I find, " Distilled spirit | alcoholic beverage | Britannica.com
https://www.britannica.com/topic/distilled-spirit

Distilled spirit, also called distilled liquor, alcoholic beverage (such as brandy, whisky, rum, or arrack) that is obtained by distillation from wine or other fermented fruit or plant juice or from a starchy material (such as various grains) that has first been brewed."


Bourbon is a unique in that, by law it must contain at least 51% corn and must only be stored prior to being bottled, in new charred barrels

[Rvaughn]

[Haruo]

I was wondering the same thing.

[KeithE]

[Dave Roberts]

I was involved in a workshop this week where the subject of evangelism frequently came up and the consensus among participants seems to be that the narrowing of our focus to private religion is part of what is producing for the church the "dones" as well as the 'nones" in response to organized religion whether that religious group is focused on getting you into heaven or getting you into a social ministry to get at society's ills. The response of young people seems often, "I am a Christian, but belong to church? You're kidding." They are quite willing to join causes, but not to engage with churches. What does this say about the future of our corporate groupings?

Yesterday, another minister and I were riding home from the conference discussing the closing of a prominent church a couple of weeks ago. This morning, I heard the announcement of the closing of another church in the same city (different denomination) closing in two more weeks. I guess I'm toying with how the current state of our Christianity figures into this including our privatizing of Christianity into a commodity rather than a set of relationships that engage us in a disciple making community.

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

[Dave Roberts]

[Tim Bonney]

[JE Pettibone]

[Tim Bonney]

[Rvaughn]

[JE Pettibone]

[Rvaughn]

[JE Pettibone]

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

[JE Pettibone]

[Dave Roberts]

I have been reading with interest the responses of late to this thread. Let me respond as best I can. First, I do not think we can overemphasize a personal relationship with God. That is the bedrock of what defines who a Christian is--a person who has repented of his or her sin and has begun to follow Jesus. The reality is, IMHO, that we have often transformed this from a lifestyle, aka "following Jesus," to an assent to a proposition--to "believe" in Jesus.

Second, I believe the privatization of the Christian faith has led us to an underemphasis on discipleship. Jesus never told us to go get assent to a proposition but to "go and make disciples." That means more than just agreeing to the importance of Jesus or giving assent to a propositional "faith statement."

Third, I believe we have de-emphasized the kingdom of God. Christianity is not a democracy in which we can accept what we want and dismiss what we don't want. It is a radical relationship in which God rules. In that way, we are to be growing in our obedience, in our love for our fellow believers, in love for our neighbor, and in love for our enemies, in order that the world may be transformed by our presence.

Fourth, again in my opinion, dispensational premillennialism has produced this individual otherworldly emphasis that basically says, pardoning the borrowing of song lyrics, "Show me the way to get out of this world, Cause that's where everything is." We want to be taken "up" in a rapture rather than serving here to fulfill what Jesus taught us to pray, "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven."

There is a lot I left unsaid, including that I believe that "faith" is a verb in its New Testament sense, not a noun as rendered in most English translations of scripture and in a lot of "statements of faith."

[James]

Random Thoughts.

I was raised in one of the most mod/lib churches in the state of GA (1942-1964). We did not focus on any one sin or any one virtue. We tried individually and collectively to live by the Golden Rule. My current church, Hampton Baptist (VA), is the most liberal Baptist church in southeastern VA. I got a large dose of fundamental evangelical Christianity at Knight's Missionary Baptist Church in Plant City, FL. I sang in the choir Knights and preached my first sermon there, but I could not take communion there.

I agree with Dave and those of you who think that church growth has been influenced by the "personal matter" characterization of faith and religion. Fundamentalist Evangelicalism tries to do it all. They preach salvation from the TV screen and practice hatred on the evening news. We have all heard the phrase "hate the sin; love the sinner." I think this phrase has been turned around in the 21st century. Now it is "love the sin because it gives us an excuse to hate the sinner." Kill the abortionists and the desperately pregnant women: the homosexuals and other sexually confused, the homeless, the huddled masses yearning to be free, the blacks, the Jews, the native Americans, etc. How could anyone want to be associated with these people? We need a label to distinguish us from them. Why is it that Christians hate each other so much?

At HBC we have chosen two issues or causes as ministries to the least of these. Both have cost us money and members. The first and least troublesome internally are our homeless and ill fed. We cooperate with other Hampton churches to provide a warm sleeping space during the cold months and, on Mondays a free hot meal, a hug, clean and repaired (if necessary), a place to shower and a washer and dryer for their laundry. Our new building was designed for this. The other issue is that of sexual orientation. Two young ladies were married in our sanctuary. They are both Christians and have become good friends.

With all of this going on, how are we to identify ourselves to either the unchurched or the unsaved. Forty years ago I could identify myself as a Christian and everyone born in the South would immediately know a lot about me. Today, if I tell someone I am a Christian, I have to carefully explain what I mean by that statement. Of all the groups of people in this country, I fear most the Christians who spin much of their time hating others-including me.

[JE Pettibone]

Ed: James.it has been ages, every once in awhile I have thought of you and wondered if you where still alive, I am glad to know you are. There are really not a lot of people that I hate but there are people who practice behaviors that I can not endorse. If that means we cant be best friends so be it. Friendship requires a good bit of energy and every year I find it necessary be more and more selective in how
I expend energy.

[Haruo]

James, see my post about gender identity issues in the Baptist Faith and Practice forum.