Shocking! Yes, shocking economic news.

The place to discuss politics and policy issues that are not directly related to matters of faith.

Moderator: Jon Estes

Shocking! Yes, shocking economic news.

Postby William Thornton » Sat May 04, 2019 7:15 pm

Lowest unemployment in decades.
GDP 3.2%
Average wage...up.
Consumer confidence soaring.


Must be some fake news else the datahounds here would be making mention of this.

OTOH, there has to be some way to spin this as a national disaster.

Maybe the hair-sniffer or other of the twenty or so dem candidates have a plan. Eliz Warren could start a dna company. Klobuchar could offer anger management classes. Beto, the shiny object, knows upscale furniture. Maybe he could open a shop. I don't know if Bern has any marketable skills. Kirsten could start a Mandarin interpreter bidness (I'm actually impressed with that).
My stray thoughts on SBC stuff may be found at my blog, SBC Plodder
User avatar
William Thornton
Site Admin
 
Posts: 12400
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Atlanta

Re: Shocking! Yes, shocking economic news.

Postby Haruo » Sat May 04, 2019 8:12 pm

Give it a year.
Haruo (呂須•春男) = ᎭᎷᎣ = Leland Bryant Ross
Repeal the language taxLearn and use Esperanto
Fremont Baptist ChurchMy hymnblog
User avatar
Haruo
Site Admin
 
Posts: 12788
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 7:21 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Shocking! Yes, shocking economic news.

Postby William Thornton » Sun May 05, 2019 4:33 am

Haruo wrote:Give it a year.


The great hope of democrats: that the economy sours, people thrown out of work, families suffer, consumers stop spending, retirement accounts go south.

Now there's a platform.
My stray thoughts on SBC stuff may be found at my blog, SBC Plodder
User avatar
William Thornton
Site Admin
 
Posts: 12400
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Atlanta

Re: Shocking! Yes, shocking economic news.

Postby Dave Roberts » Sun May 05, 2019 4:51 am

One of the great Trump lies is that he rescued the economy. It has been on a slow upswing for ten years. Actually, the tax cut creates an interesting bubble as the wealthiest companies buy back their own stock to make money for the few preventing the kind of gains that most of today's retirees got from investments in our retirement accounts. That is not coming when the available stock pool is shrinking.
"God will never be less than He is and does not need to be more" (John Koessler)

My blog: http://emporiadave.wordpress.com/
User avatar
Dave Roberts
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7545
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:01 pm
Location: Southside, VA

Re: Shocking! Yes, shocking economic news.

Postby Sandy » Sun May 05, 2019 9:46 am

Those are Trump administration figures. My response to those is the same as his used to be when unemployment was reaching lows not seen in decades during his predecessor's administration, when the economy under Obama produced consecutive months of unprecedented job growth, and when the GDP flipped by 5 percentage points from the negatives under Bush. Trump said, "Those are just their figures. That's not really what's happening." And "The President's policy doesn't have anything to do with the economy, it runs on its own." That's from his book. And he also alluded to the number of people who simply dropped out of the unemployment figures because they ran out of benefits and stopped being counted. Obviously, according to orange hair, these people never came back into the system during Obama's last term, and Trump's unemployment numbers are not anywhere near large enough to have accounted for them over the past two years (unemployment is actually starting to move back up and job growth is slowing down).

When compared to Trump's economic starting point, these are average figures, not anything outstanding. They're built on what was a remarkable eight year recovery from the Bush recession during the Obama administration.

And a roaring economy wouldn't be enough to make up for the corruption and the lack of character.

Y*A*W*N*
Sandy
Sandy
 
Posts: 9423
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 4:10 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Shocking! Yes, shocking economic news.

Postby KeithE » Sun May 05, 2019 10:28 pm

Yes the GDP growth has been better under Trump than the second term of Obama but about the same as Obama’s first term.

Image

Note that the only things one could argue that Trump has done for the economy was (1) the tax cut (very argumenatably in that it only has taken full effect last month tax day) and (2) deregulation (which led to disaster in 2008). There has been little difference in trade - still negotiating “deals”.

It is known that you can promote GDP growth if the deficit is rising as it has under Trump (2019 will be above $1T while Obama lowered it from $1.4T under Bush to a low of $438B in 2015).
https://www.usgovernmentdebt.us/federal_deficit

So the GDP growth under Trump has been paid for by deficit spending. Much more impressive in the growth under Obama while deficits were declining (2010 to 2015).

And the growth in GDP has helped mostly those at the top - that prosperity is not shared vey well. True the investor class (about 40% of us) are benefitting by the stock market. But most benefits have been for the top 15% while the lower half class has seen less than 1% growth during 1980-2014 under the philosophy of supple side economics. I can only imagine that it has gotten worse under Trump since his economics are more supply-sideish (witness his tax cut distribution).

Image

Yes there has been a drop in unemployment that started in 2010 under Obama but has slowed somewhat under Trump (but that is to be expected since the unemployment floor is thought to be about 2-3% due normal transient employment).

Image

It is a truism that the President gets too much credit / blame for the economy. But I’d claim Obama has done a better job than Trump given the conditions at the start of their terms. But the economy under Trump is quite good as well.

And I agree with Sandy

And (even) a roaring economy (which we don't have) wouldn't be enough to make up for the corruption and the lack of character.
Last edited by KeithE on Sun May 05, 2019 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Informed by Data.
Driven by the SPIRIT and JESUS’s Example.
Promoting the Kingdom of GOD on Earth.
User avatar
KeithE
Site Admin
 
Posts: 9185
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:02 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL

Re: Shocking! Yes, shocking economic news.

Postby Sandy » Sun May 05, 2019 10:55 pm

The economic growth that started under the Obama administration continues. What's shocking about that? It took a Democrat to get the economy moving again, as it did in 1992.
Sandy
Sandy
 
Posts: 9423
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 4:10 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Shocking! Yes, shocking economic news.

Postby KeithE » Sun May 05, 2019 11:00 pm

Sandy wrote:The economic growth that started under the Obama administration continues. What's shocking about that? It took a Democrat to get the economy moving again, as it did in 1992.

Amen. Not saying that because the party in power, but because those are the facts.

Truth is Kennedy, LBJ, Carter, Clinton and Obama and Trump showed economic progress. Ike, Nixon/Ford, Reagan and the Bushes were not so good.

In terms of private-sector job growth:
Image
Job growth since Trump has been about 2.3 Million jobs created a year (2017,2018), matching Clinton’s annual average.

Source: Century Foundation Study look at second chart for job creations.
Informed by Data.
Driven by the SPIRIT and JESUS’s Example.
Promoting the Kingdom of GOD on Earth.
User avatar
KeithE
Site Admin
 
Posts: 9185
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:02 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL

Re: Shocking! Yes, shocking economic news.

Postby William Thornton » Mon May 06, 2019 5:09 am

Dems can't run on much of any of this. But maybe 'save the planet' or 'free stuff for all' will work.
My stray thoughts on SBC stuff may be found at my blog, SBC Plodder
User avatar
William Thornton
Site Admin
 
Posts: 12400
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Atlanta

Re: Shocking! Yes, shocking economic news.

Postby Dave Roberts » Mon May 06, 2019 7:26 am

One of my concerns about the economy is the question of the ability of younger people to gain wealth, especially in home values and in retirement accounts. Home prices in some markets have already put younger people outside the possibility of buying homes (unless their parents are able to help them). Also, with the numbers of stock buy-backs by major companies, the earnings of their retirement accounts are running quite low, and interest rate on even long-term investments are almost nil. It seems our economy favors those who are over fifty and works against younger people. As an example, the first home we purchased gained 300% in value from its purchase to its sale. Our present home, purchased in 2001, would sell for little more than what we paid. Also, we purchased CD's in the 70's through the 90's that paid 3.5 to 5% interest. Now 2% is considered amazing. We are not in an economy that allows working people and younger people to make gains.
"God will never be less than He is and does not need to be more" (John Koessler)

My blog: http://emporiadave.wordpress.com/
User avatar
Dave Roberts
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7545
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:01 pm
Location: Southside, VA

Re: Shocking! Yes, shocking economic news.

Postby Sandy » Mon May 06, 2019 9:07 am

William Thornton wrote:Dems can't run on much of any of this. But maybe 'save the planet' or 'free stuff for all' will work.


Oh, they most certainly can. Trump's economic numbers look good but they are only benefitting the wealthiest of the wealthy. Most Americans aren't seeing any real change in their economic benefit. The gains have been fractional, and not there for most. There are enough people who genuinely think and pay attention to these things to make a difference. At the moment, though, all the Democrats really need to gather a substantial majority of votes and win elections is Trump's corruption, lies and inept insanity. That's done as much for the Democrats over the past two years as any economic boom their policies have initiated. :-) .
Sandy
Sandy
 
Posts: 9423
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 4:10 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Shocking! Yes, shocking economic news.

Postby KeithE » Mon May 06, 2019 12:27 pm

William Thornton wrote:Dems can't run on much of any of this. But maybe 'save the planet' or 'free stuff for all' will work.

How about honesty, morality, diligence, restoring out international reputation, and working for all the people (not just for Trump himself). "Save the planet” works with the young voters, thoughtful seniors and 97% of climate scientists.
Last edited by KeithE on Mon May 06, 2019 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Informed by Data.
Driven by the SPIRIT and JESUS’s Example.
Promoting the Kingdom of GOD on Earth.
User avatar
KeithE
Site Admin
 
Posts: 9185
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:02 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL

Re: Shocking! Yes, shocking economic news.

Postby KeithE » Mon May 06, 2019 12:29 pm

Dave Roberts wrote:One of my concerns about the economy is the question of the ability of younger people to gain wealth, especially in home values and in retirement accounts. Home prices in some markets have already put younger people outside the possibility of buying homes (unless their parents are able to help them). Also, with the numbers of stock buy-backs by major companies, the earnings of their retirement accounts are running quite low, and interest rate on even long-term investments are almost nil. It seems our economy favors those who are over fifty and works against younger people. As an example, the first home we purchased gained 300% in value from its purchase to its sale. Our present home, purchased in 2001, would sell for little more than what we paid. Also, we purchased CD's in the 70's through the 90's that paid 3.5 to 5% interest. Now 2% is considered amazing. We are not in an economy that allows working people and younger people to make gains.

Amen to all of that.
Informed by Data.
Driven by the SPIRIT and JESUS’s Example.
Promoting the Kingdom of GOD on Earth.
User avatar
KeithE
Site Admin
 
Posts: 9185
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:02 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL

Re: Shocking! Yes, shocking economic news.

Postby William Thornton » Mon May 06, 2019 1:44 pm

KeithE wrote:
William Thornton wrote:Dems can't run on much of any of this. But maybe 'save the planet' or 'free stuff for all' will work.

How about honesty, morality, diligence, restoring out international reputation, and working for all the people (not just for Trump himself). "Save the planet” works with the young voters, thoughtful seniors and 97% of climate scientists.


Hey, try it. Wasn't a possibility for,either of,the Clintons.
My stray thoughts on SBC stuff may be found at my blog, SBC Plodder
User avatar
William Thornton
Site Admin
 
Posts: 12400
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Atlanta

Re: Shocking! Yes, shocking economic news.

Postby KeithE » Mon May 06, 2019 2:17 pm

Image

Looks like 76% of Americans are alarmed, concerned or cautious about climate change. And those numbers have increased over the last 5 years
Informed by Data.
Driven by the SPIRIT and JESUS’s Example.
Promoting the Kingdom of GOD on Earth.
User avatar
KeithE
Site Admin
 
Posts: 9185
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:02 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL

Re: Shocking! Yes, shocking economic news.

Postby Sandy » Mon May 06, 2019 2:49 pm

William Thornton wrote:
KeithE wrote:
William Thornton wrote:Dems can't run on much of any of this. But maybe 'save the planet' or 'free stuff for all' will work.

How about honesty, morality, diligence, restoring out international reputation, and working for all the people (not just for Trump himself). "Save the planet” works with the young voters, thoughtful seniors and 97% of climate scientists.


Hey, try it. Wasn't a possibility for,either of,the Clintons.


Two decades past. Sounds like someone irked by eight years of a Democratic, African American president whose administration was scandal free.

Compared to a three-times married corrupt real estate mogul who claims more than a hundred affairs with married women, had affairs with at least two porn stars while his current wife was pregnant with his youngest son and tried to lie about the hush money they were paid, claimed his celebrity status allows him to grab women by their genitals and admits to having done that, owns gaming casinos and strip joints, and defrauded hundreds by charging tuition to a fake university, I wouldn't say its a possibility for Trump, either. But it is for every Democrat who's thrown their hat in the ring.
Sandy
Sandy
 
Posts: 9423
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 4:10 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Shocking! Yes, shocking economic news.

Postby Haruo » Mon May 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Sandy wrote:
William Thornton wrote:
KeithE wrote:How about honesty, morality, diligence, restoring out international reputation, and working for all the people (not just for Trump himself). "Save the planet” works with the young voters, thoughtful seniors and 97% of climate scientists.


Hey, try it. Wasn't a possibility for,either of,the Clintons.


Two decades past. Sounds like someone irked by eight years of a Democratic, African American president whose administration was scandal free.

Compared to a three-times married corrupt real estate mogul who claims more than a hundred affairs with married women, had affairs with at least two porn stars while his current wife was pregnant with his youngest son and tried to lie about the hush money they were paid, claimed his celebrity status allows him to grab women by their genitals and admits to having done that, owns gaming casinos and strip joints, and defrauded hundreds by charging tuition to a fake university, I wouldn't say its a possibility for Trump, either. But it is for every Democrat who's thrown their hat in the ring.

Yeah, I don't know how honest, morally upright, diligent, internationally respected or service-oriented all the Dems are, but any one of them (including either Clinton) would have to work really hard to put together such a CV of vileness and despicability as Trump managed without appearing to particularly work at it. I find it hard to fathom how William, regardless of how he views the Dems on policy matters, can fail to see this. Even if your only news source is Fox, this stuff is not a secret.
Haruo (呂須•春男) = ᎭᎷᎣ = Leland Bryant Ross
Repeal the language taxLearn and use Esperanto
Fremont Baptist ChurchMy hymnblog
User avatar
Haruo
Site Admin
 
Posts: 12788
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 7:21 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Shocking! Yes, shocking economic news.

Postby William Thornton » Tue May 07, 2019 4:13 am

Neither Clinton was a model of rectitude.
My stray thoughts on SBC stuff may be found at my blog, SBC Plodder
User avatar
William Thornton
Site Admin
 
Posts: 12400
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Atlanta

Re: Shocking! Yes, shocking economic news.

Postby Dave Roberts » Tue May 07, 2019 7:13 am

William Thornton wrote:Neither Clinton was a model of rectitude.


When you have no defense for DJT, attack a Dem. Funny that Americans have so little ability to critically reason that they actually have bought this as a defense of DJT. We have trained our "drones" well to buy ocean front property in Arizona.
"God will never be less than He is and does not need to be more" (John Koessler)

My blog: http://emporiadave.wordpress.com/
User avatar
Dave Roberts
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7545
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:01 pm
Location: Southside, VA

Re: Shocking! Yes, shocking economic news.

Postby William Thornton » Tue May 07, 2019 10:30 am

My view of the Clintons goes back to early 1980s.
My stray thoughts on SBC stuff may be found at my blog, SBC Plodder
User avatar
William Thornton
Site Admin
 
Posts: 12400
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Atlanta

Re: Shocking! Yes, shocking economic news.

Postby Dave Roberts » Tue May 07, 2019 12:23 pm

William Thornton wrote:My view of the Clintons goes back to early 1980s.


But, in what way does attacking the Clintons offer a defense for DJT? After all, he won the electoral college.
"God will never be less than He is and does not need to be more" (John Koessler)

My blog: http://emporiadave.wordpress.com/
User avatar
Dave Roberts
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7545
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:01 pm
Location: Southside, VA

Re: Shocking! Yes, shocking economic news.

Postby Haruo » Tue May 07, 2019 12:44 pm

William Thornton wrote:Neither Clinton was a model of rectitude.

I certainly agree. But I think Trump has them both beat by a mile.
Haruo (呂須•春男) = ᎭᎷᎣ = Leland Bryant Ross
Repeal the language taxLearn and use Esperanto
Fremont Baptist ChurchMy hymnblog
User avatar
Haruo
Site Admin
 
Posts: 12788
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 7:21 pm
Location: Seattle


Return to Politics and Public Policy Issues

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests