What is moderate Baptist these days. FBC Huntsville Testcase

[Sandy]

[KeithE]

[William Thornton]

Sure. Some discipleship.

[KeithE]

[Dave Roberts]

I had not had time to review all the post from Travis. My awareness of what Collins has written seems to express a feeling that many have today, that feeling of homelessness in world of change. The SBC has gone into the land of doctrinal dryness, especially with Calvinism uplifted in two of its larger seminaries. Neither CBF nor the SBC has a healthy evangelism program. I had Dr. Cecil Sherman in my last pastorate lead a rally on evangelism. Sherman, IMHO, had a very healthy approach to evangelism. My awareness also of Dan Vestal was of a healthy evangelism. There are CBF churches in VA with good baptism levels, though there are not nearly enough of them. I do think that we have a need to hear a wider selection of voices in all movements.

[Sandy]

When I graduated from seminary, I spent two or three days with a committee from University Baptist in Huntsville which, at the time, was a congregation of about 400 with a lot of college professors and NASA employees. I don't think they ever joined CBF, but they were not completely on board with the direction of the SBC in many ways. I would conclude, from that experience, that the First Baptist Church, which was a much larger congregation (steeple on the property looks like a rocket getting ready to launch) would have the same influences of an educated community with a university campus and a high-tech government agency. It seems like a lot of CBF churches are in that same spot, a group of people within the church who are more actively opposed to the direction the SBC is going, and a larger but still somewhat moderate group willing to allow them the freedom to give and support what they want, as long as it is consistent with the mission and purpose of the church.

I have to wonder if CBF's leadership, whether it is its board or its executive, or the whole inner circle of the fellowship understand that churches like this are feeling left behind and left out because they really aren't changing as the inner core of the fellowship has changed. And they don't seem to understand that most of the churches that support them with budget money are very similar to this one, larger, more traditional congregations that aren't fundamentalist by doctrine or practice, but not far enough to the left to ordain a female senior pastor, or an LGBT deacon. And they want a place at the table, but are now feeling that they don't have one. It appears that conversation among those more progressive who now are in leadership at CBF has led churches like this to believe that not all they have to say, especially if it differs from the accepted view on female clergy or acceptance of same-gender relationships as normal, is welcome to be expresses in spite of rhetoric about inclusiveness and diversity used by CBF leaders to characterize itself. Here's one of the supporting congregations that is pretty mainstream CBF which feels left out.

[KeithE]

[KeithE]

[Dave Roberts]

Knowing Travis Collins from his service in VA at Bon Air Baptist in Richmond, he was much more SBC oriented than CBF oriented. To my knowledge, while there were members of his church who contributed to CBF by designation, his church never invited a CBF representative or missions personnel to speak at the church or its emphases. There were some there who also supported BTSR across town, but I never saw any direct support from him. I was surprised that FBC Huntsville chose him. He went there in interim commuting from VA and suddenly parlayed that interim into a pastorate, something generally regarded as an unethical action from an interim. In fact, if I were to do that, my certification as an intentional interim would be immediately and permanently revoked. Travis needs to be seen in context of his own ministry, not just Huntsville.

[William Thornton]

[William Thornton]

If he were from Mars and no one here knew him, I'd say that his points are well taken. Here's a guy who doesn't fit in the CBF or SBC scheme. Where will he go? Where will he lead his church to go? Obviously, he didn't swallow all the re-imagining fuzzy talk from the grand CBF committee. And, when's the last time you heard straight talk from a CBF leader on Christian conversion, the new birth?

[Dave Roberts]

[William Thornton]

[Dave Roberts]

William, I can't speak for what may be in all CBF churches, but I can tell you what I do and what my pastor does (when I get the rare chance to hear her). I "preach Christ crucified." That is what I expect to hear every time I am in church. Not every sermon should be evangelistic, but I expect to hear and share some gospel in sermons. Adult conversions come when God's people get outside the church where people are, form relationships with them, and love them for Christ. The days of people just coming to church because it's there on Sunday are over. The evangelism of today will be relational, not propositional. Our greatest Baptist problem in both the SBC and CBF is being in our religious ghettos where we don't have regular dealings with lost people.

[Sandy]

[Sandy]

[Stephen Fox]

I'm gonna check on it now, but I hear he made an innocuous post re the FBC Huntsville pastor and had 300 comments within 24 hours.

[Dave Roberts]

One more interesting piece of this. Travis Collins has worked for the past few years as a liaison with Fresh Expressions promoting their work. I can't help wondering if his article is a prelude to recommending that group as the new Promised Land for those in the middle of the journey. I do think that has to be figured into what he has written.

[William Thornton]

[KeithE]

FWIW



Seems this started in 2004 with Church of England and British Methodists but has expanded across the sea and to other Protestants.

Emphasis is funding churches for unique “contexts” like Cowboy churches, bikers churches, “Messy” churches (whatever that is).

Travis is mentioned on the About Us / Team page.

[Dave Roberts]

Interestingly, I was with a lay leader from his church who is heavily involved in CBF this week who is not very happy with his statements about CBF and intends to have a talk with him about his lack of understanding of CBF.

[KeithE]

[Sandy]

I don't know anyone at FBC-H. Looking at their website, at their newsletter, the church has a worship attendance that flirts with 1,000, and gives about 10% of its undesignated receipts to missions with about 90% of that going to the CP through the state convention in Alabama, not counting a hefty Lottie Moon gift, and about 10% to CBF. I don't think you can measure "commitment" or loyalty in terms of percentages or dollars. I would guess that's probably typical of most churches that still remain dually affiliated with SBC and CBF. How many members, out of 1,000, are aware of and supportive of CBF in that particular congregation?

[Tim Bonney]

From my perspective it appears that the only thing that separates the author from being a run of the mill conservative or even fundamentalist SBCer is that he supports women in ministry and won't sign the BFM 2000. I'd say moderate sliding to the right.

[KeithE]