Moderator: William Thornton
Dave Roberts wrote:Makes me glad to be out of the SBC fold and not have to live where the outcome of all inquiry is already prescribed. This is an old debate rooted in scripture and most succinctly studied in Oscar Cullmann's writings. I had a pastor who did his dissertation in this area, and I am reminded that conditional immortality is one option in certain biblical passages. Of course, perhaps the most hellish punishment to imagine is to get nothing but yourself for all eternity.
Jon Estes wrote:The link to the letter of dismissal makes it sound as if no first-hand evidence was presented. The link to the emails tells a different story. The audio link is troubling.
These links are in the article of this subject on sbcvoices.
I have a problem with CP dollars going to support those who teach no hell or no eternal hell... among other things. Things which are a contradiction of scripture. I have a problem with spending CP dollars on those who gladly teach outside of Baptist parameters set by Baptists. I think this applies to those who get a check from CP... not those who do not.
Timothy Bonney wrote: But, then neither the ABC/USA or the UMC contribute funds to related colleges as a means of control so such an expectation is outside of my experience.
Dave Roberts wrote: He told a couple of students in his theology classes to sit on the front row. He said, "I don't want your patrons to get poor tapes or mistake what I have said."
We have read a recent press release from SBU stating that there has been a “previous affirmation of the Baptist Faith and Message 2000 that has been made by all faculty of the Courts Redford College of Theology and Ministry.” This report has invoked incredulity and bewilderment from all of us, as we consider our own experience in the Redford College alongside recent statements that have surfaced from an on-campus forum.
We have read a recent press release from SBU stating that there has been a “previous affirmation of the Baptist Faith and Message 2000 that has been made by all faculty of the Courts Redford College of Theology and Ministry.”...The incredulous response from alumni in reaction to this report arises from our experiences at SBU, where at times our professors were unclear on doctrines expressed in the BF&M 2000, or were teaching in direct opposition to it. While our experiences were not the same, we can collectively affirm that our instruction from some Redford professors was not in accord with the BF&M 2000.
Tim Bonney wrote:Sandy, from your perspective what is the difference between. creed and a "confessional statement?" From all you have said above it appears to me that the BFM 2000 is being used the way I'd expect denominations to use a creed.
Sandy wrote:
From my perspective, a confessional statement is simply a statement that declares specific things that you believe. The BFM is not comprehensive enough to be a creed, though I would agree that in some cases, especially when it comes to SBC seminaries, it is being used that way. A creed is a prescribed set of beliefs handed down from ecclesiastical authority which the SBC doesn't have. Part of the problem here is that SBU's administration and trustees see the BFM 2000 as a confessional statement, while the critics of the Redford school professors see it as a creed.
Sandy wrote:
I should say that the BFM is not comprehensive enough to stand alone as a doctrinal statement for a college or graduate level theological educational institution.
Baptists cherish and defend religious liberty, and deny the right of any secular or religious authority to impose a confession of faith upon a church or body of churches. We honor the principles of soul competency and the priesthood of believers, affirming together both our liberty in Christ and our accountability to each other under the Word of God.
Baptist churches, associations, and general bodies have adopted confessions of faith as a witness to the world, and as instruments of doctrinal accountability. We are not embarrassed to state before the world that these are doctrines we hold precious and as essential to the Baptist tradition of faith and practice.
SBC Committee on the Baptist Faith and Message 2000 wrote:"The closing sentence of the 1963 statement on the Scriptures has been a cause of controversy. Some have used the language defining Jesus Christ as 'the criterion by which the Bible is to be interpreted,' to drive a wedge between the incarnate Word and the written Word, and to deny the truthfulness of certain passages. We use stronger and more historic language in affirming the fact that 'all Scripture is a testimony to Christ, who is Himself the focus of divine revelation.' As Christ said of the Scriptures, 'these are they which testify of Me.' [John 5:39]
Baptist Faith and Message 2000 wrote:All Scripture is a testimony to Christ, who is Himself the focus of divine revelation.
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