Ideas to Reopen Government

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Re: Ideas to Reopen Government

Postby KeithE » Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:23 am

I’m sorry Jon, I inadvertently deleted your post. In replying to that post I made the mistake to edit your post when I meant to quote it. Then in attempting to fix the situation I copied my response and deleted the whole post including yours. The moderator power enables that.

To the best of my remembrance, your points were in burnt orange:

"You (that is me) use the NBC poll but ignore its outcome.

......

Nice try, Expected ..... from those who cannot find any good in Trump”


Please fill in.

I’m sorry and am embarrassed.
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Re: Ideas to Reopen Government

Postby KeithE » Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:27 am

Here is what I replied:

The polling source (NBC News/SurveyMonkey) has a title "Poll: Democrats, Trump to blame for government shutdown” saying quit accurately that Democrats and Trump are mostly to blame. Similarly the CNBC new story about the poll is entitled "Americans blame Democrats and Trump for the government shutdown, poll says”. They are responsible journalists who recognize that the difference between 39% (Democrats in Congress) and 38% (Trump) is within the ±2.2% margin of error.

Image
(I wish I could easily resize these plots - I struggle though Photobucket every time I try, but the numbers are in my text above 38%/18%/39% in order of the bars above).

I’ll add this plot below to show that this assignment of blame is largely along party lines.
Image

Jon’s take on who is to blame: Schumer at first, shifting to “Democrats in Congress” the “outcome" of the NBC poll.

My take on who/what is to blame is more nuanced: (1) polarization in congress/country, (2) the congressional process (effectively demanding 60 votes), (3) Trump’s lack of consistent leadership.

BTW, I can say a few good things about Trump’s reign:
- some of his deregulation has been good (especially streamlining construction red tape, though not the EPA's green lighting pollution or relaxation of OSHA rules),
- his call to repatriate taxes on profits stored offshore (of course it has not happened yet),
- his strong threat of retaliation to North Korea if they launch any ICBM towards us (though not his name calling "Rocket Man”),
- ISIS has been thwarted in and around Iraq/Syria (though his words may have embolden ISIS elsewhere),
- he dropped the TPP (but for the wrong reasons, nonetheless it has been dropped),
- he has enlivened the political discussion across the country (invigorating more candidates to run).

Not much (and qualified), but I try to find good things. You are wrong to say otherwise. I even bought/read the Jan 18 NYT which expressly gave voices to Trump supporters on its opinion page. And initially I had great hope for a $1T (over 10 years) Infrastructure Program; still do (paid for largely by a financial transaction tax).
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Re: Ideas to Reopen Government

Postby Jon Estes » Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:33 am

KeithE wrote:I’m sorry Jon, I inadvertently deleted your post. In replying to that post I made the mistake to edit your post when I meant to quote it. Then in attempting to fix the situation I copied my response and deleted the whole post including yours. The moderator power enables that.

To the best of my remembrance, your points were in burnt orange:

"You (that is me) use the NBC poll but ignore its outcome.

......

Nice try, Expected ..... from those who cannot find any good in Trump”


Please fill in.

I’m sorry and am embarrassed.


Maybe my comments are with HRC's deleted stuff. They can't find them either. Or the FBI SMS's - 5 months worth.

No time to redo it in the next few days. AWANA tonight - church tomorrow - traveling Saturday - Meetings all day Sunday and then on and on...

Did u use bleach bit?

Did you wipe it with a cloth?

Oh, the real reason you deleted my stuff will probably never be admitted too.

Anyone out there have a conspiracy theory as to why Keith would delete my comments? Would love to hear your thoughts.
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Re: Ideas to Reopen Government

Postby KeithE » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:42 am

Jon Estes wrote:
KeithE wrote:I’m sorry Jon, I inadvertently deleted your post. In replying to that post I made the mistake to edit your post when I meant to quote it. Then in attempting to fix the situation I copied my response and deleted the whole post including yours. The moderator power enables that.

To the best of my remembrance, your points were in burnt orange:

'You (that is me) use the NBC poll but ignore its outcome.

......

Nice try, Expected ..... from those who cannot find any good in Trump'


Please fill in.

I’m sorry and am embarrassed.


Maybe my comments are with HRC's deleted stuff. They can't find them either. Or the FBI SMS's - 5 months worth.

No time to redo it in the next few days. AWANA tonight - church tomorrow - traveling Saturday - Meetings all day Sunday and then on and on...

Did u use bleach bit?

Did you wipe it with a cloth?

Oh, the real reason you deleted my stuff will probably never be admitted too.

Anyone out there have a conspiracy theory as to why Keith would delete my comments? Would love to hear your thoughts.


In truth it was inadvertent.
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Re: Ideas to Reopen Government

Postby William Thornton » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:35 am

Jon, I've hit the wrong moderator button here several times, just like Keith explained that he did with yours. It's not hard to mess up and once stuff is gone it's inaccessible.

I
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Re: Ideas to Reopen Government

Postby Jon Estes » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:53 am

I guess I should have put a big TIC at the end.

No worries on this end.
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Re: Ideas to Reopen Government

Postby KeithE » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:47 am

Thanks guys.
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Re: Ideas to Reopen Government

Postby JE Pettibone » Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:58 pm

William Thornton wrote:Jon, I've hit the wrong moderator button here several times, just like Keith explained that he did with yours. It's not hard to mess up and once stuff is gone it's inaccessible.

I


Ed: William, If you and Keith are that sloppy with the delete button could you not at least let the writer of the erroneously deleted post know what happened to it?
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Re: Ideas to Reopen Government

Postby Sandy » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:38 pm

William Thornton wrote:
Sandy wrote:Schumer got waxed? Sure didn't seem that way. Given the mimicking of stuck pigs from Ryan and McConnell, I'd say they're the ones that got the waxing, and a shellacking on top of a whipping.


Even MSM is calling this one.


Watched two network broadcasts, and about an hour and a half of two cable news outlets, and don't see Schumer getting waxed, or anything even close to it. Wishful thinking on your part, I think, because Trump, Ryan and McConnell are the ones getting most of the blame, even from some extremist conservative sources.
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Re: Ideas to Reopen Government

Postby William Thornton » Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:15 am

Schumer shutdown...yesterday's news.
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Re: Ideas to Reopen Government

Postby KeithE » Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:37 am

JE Pettibone wrote:
William Thornton wrote:Jon, I've hit the wrong moderator button here several times, just like Keith explained that he did with yours. It's not hard to mess up and once stuff is gone it's inaccessible.

I


Ed: William, If you and Keith are that sloppy with the delete button could you not at least let the writer of the erroneously deleted post know what happened to it?


Ed, I did say what happened in this post early yesterday morning. I’ll add to that, that I read Jon’s post while still in bed with my iPhone and blurry eyes - guess I started out pressing “Edit” instead of “Quote"; recognized the error later at my computer where I attempted to fix it (badly, deleting Jon's words thinking his post was recorded elsewhere). When I couldn’t find Jon’s words, I confessed at 8:23am in the post linked above.

If you are asking where do “deleted" posts go, they go into computer space (aka as “ether space”) somewhere. I just now tried to recover Jon’s words by
(1) Checking Baptist Life’s “Moderator Control Panel”, I see that I “edited” Jon’s post at 8:05am yesterday and “deleted" that post at 8:11am (again in an attempt to fix what “editing” I inadvertently did). But could not recover Jon’s words.

(2) Checking my backup (a Time Machine) for a time frame at about 3:00am yesterday and I guess they do not keep posts I leave on the internet.

I suspect we could pay some forensic computer expert to retrieve Jon’s post. I’ve seen what pros can do recovering computer files. But that would be over the top.
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Re: Ideas to Reopen Government

Postby Jim » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:44 am

Yeah...I just had a post on the solemn BF&P forum deleted. It was sorta tongue-in-cheek but I'm sure humor or even satire would be beneath that moderator's contempt. I'm sure I offended somebody(s). At least I hope I did. I didn't offend the moderator, though, who in a post of his own a while back compared me unfavorably with a mule having ill-fitting blinders. I was not offended, however, sorta remembering Balaam's ass, whom Balaam walloped three times before the ass told him to take a hike.
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Re: Ideas to Reopen Government

Postby William Thornton » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:52 am

Jim, I zapped one of your posts. I thought it was unkind in a personal way. Get a grip, bro.
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Re: Ideas to Reopen Government

Postby Sandy » Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:39 pm

William Thornton wrote:Schumer shutdown...yesterday's news.


You'd think if the guy "got waxed," there'd be a lasting effect, not "here today, gone tomorrow." "Schumer shutdown" was Trump's term, and the majority of voters ignored it while blaming him and his party, who control congress, for the shutdown. Even the conservatively biased polls used by fox news showed that.
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Re: Ideas to Reopen Government

Postby William Thornton » Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:28 am

Yeah. Guess those folks at his house were celebrating his triumph.
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Re: Ideas to Reopen Government

Postby KeithE » Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:31 am

I thought the word “waxed” in this context (when William first used the term - to his wishful thinking glee) refers to being put away from active participation (politics in this case), as in relegated to a “wax museum”. As I said earlier nobody got “waxed” in this shutdown event. Not Trump or Schumer or Congressional Democrats or Congressional Republicans have been “waxed”, although many have hopes that someone or some party or our whole set of politicians would be. So the beat (political battles) goes on, with the same participants.

I will say that the Democrats (and well-intentioned immigrants / Dreamers / DACAers) got “snookered” in this situation. How badly? We will see in the next 6 weeks before the March 5 deadline of Trump’s decree to phase out the DACA program.
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Re: Ideas to Reopen Government

Postby William Thornton » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:06 am

"Waxed" as I used it carried over from athletics: to defeat descisively, to drub. Now you know.
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Re: Ideas to Reopen Government

Postby Sandy » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:31 am

William Thornton wrote:"Waxed" as I used it carried over from athletics: to defeat descisively, to drub. Now you know.


"Torched" is the term I used when applied to athletics. Either way, it was the orange headed buffoon, McConnell and Ryan that got torched, or waxed, or both. McConnell is still, today, "smoking" from it, and playing damage control. Schumer, and the Democrats, are moving on, to polling data and financial contributions that are so favorable, they are having trouble controlling their exuberance.
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Re: Ideas to Reopen Government

Postby Haruo » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:18 pm

KeithE wrote:Ed, [...] If you are asking where do “deleted" posts go, they go into computer space (aka as “ether space”) somewhere.

They are preserved in a large ledger book in heaven.
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Re: Ideas to Reopen Government

Postby Jim » Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:21 pm

William Thornton wrote:Jim, I zapped one of your posts. I thought it was unkind in a personal way. Get a grip, bro.


No big deal, but just about as hypocritical as it gets. This is the post that started that thread: “Have evangelicals so destroyed their witness with their support of a thrice married, known adulterer, serial liar, racist who had his attorney pay off a porn star while his third wife was having a child? I guess those evangelicals who supported and still support him are not the ones witnessing to the lost.” I think you consider yourself an evangelical (SBC anyway, those evil Trump-supporters), so that post was very personally insulting to you and other evangelicals like me, but you didn't erase it nor did the moderator who used his forum to call me worse than an ass (kinda personal but you didn't erase that, either). And then I think of all the insults you and Keith have traded back and forth (and don't forget Sandy's malicious super-verbosity) but they didn't qualify for erasure, not personal enough? I used no vulgar language in that post, although I don't remember what I wrote except that I introduced a fictitious agency which I thought anyone with half-a-brain would know didn't exist. The initiator of that original post went out of his way to continue to excoriate evangelicals, of which he made it plain he was not one (unlike Jesus) but none of that crap was erased. Then I come along and suddenly your sensitivities are (gasp) herniated to the point of transgressing another moderator's forum, although I suppose that's allowed.

Nothing I write is personal since I don't know anyone in this forum personally; however, I use sarcasm, satire, bad poetry, nuances, made-up stuff that is obviously so on its face and anything else I can think of to make a point. Nothing is more boring than constant prose or CNN-boilerplate. No one should be offended more than I ought to be since I've suffered an abundance of slings and errors and at least one “personal” chinmoku. But I'm not offended and neither should you be. I'm on the other side of most questions introduced here, so I expect excoriation and will usually push-back a bit.

So...lest your delicate sensitivities be ruptured again, bro, get a grip.
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Re: Ideas to Reopen Government

Postby Jon Estes » Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:38 am

Jim wrote:
William Thornton wrote:Jim, I zapped one of your posts. I thought it was unkind in a personal way. Get a grip, bro.


Nothing I write is personal since I don't know anyone in this forum personally; however, I use sarcasm, satire, bad poetry, nuances, made-up stuff that is obviously so on its face and anything else I can think of to make a point.


Best sentence of your post in explaining yourself and your posts. I do not think this is completely understood by many posters, as this is very personal to them.

I did not read what was deleted so I cannot speak directly to that. William though is fair but, he, like the rest of us - have some things grip us wrongly while other things that may be more disturbing don't.

Some, it seems, believe criticism is fair when they use it but not fair when used against them. That is not only here but other places Baptists gather online to read and respond to others about many given subjects.
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Re: Ideas to Reopen Government

Postby Dave Roberts » Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:57 am

I had also removed one of Jim's posts because it directly attacked the motivations of another member of the forum. There are rules that it might pay us all to read sometimes.
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Re: Ideas to Reopen Government

Postby William Thornton » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:42 am

I know unacceptable stuff when I see it. Very few comments are deleted here. Since the death of any discussion is talking about each other, let's move along.

Glad we all have a grip...let's get bacl to the gripes.
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