Transition in Oklahoma

[Sandy]

https://www.baptiststandard.com/news/ba ... -director/

A seminary classmate, though he was in a different program, and commuted. I believe our paths crossed in a couple of classes. I would imagine he fits well with the conservative posture of the Oklahoma state convention, though he was at Southwestern during the Dilday years.

[Dave Roberts]

He is an unknown to me. Maybe Flick can give us a perspective.

[David Flick]

[Rvaughn]

David, just curious, in looking at this I notice NorthHaven Church is partnered with both the Cooperating Baptist Fellowship of Oklahoma and the Baptist General Convention of Texas. Is that rather common or rare among Oklahoma CBF churches?

[Sandy]

Looking at the identification on websites, and the Texas Baptist Annual, I see three CBFO congregations, out of the 21 total, which are affiliated with the Baptist General Convention of Texas. NorthHaven is one, Spring Creek in Oklahoma City, and Northwest in Ardmore are the other two I can identify. There may be more.

Since the split in the Texas conventions, the Baptist General Convention has opened up affiliation and membership to churches from other states. I don't think there's a large number of them, but maybe a couple dozen who are more comfortable with their theological position, based on the BFM 1963 instead of the 2000 version, and with the fact that the BGCT has a relationship with CBF, whereas other state conventions are pushing churches out if they are dually affiliated with the CBF. Last I recall, all of the out of state churches in the BGCT were also CBF.

That might be an option for churches that get kicked out of the Kentucky convention because of their CBF affiliation. If there are enough of them, they can form their own association and affiliate with the BGCT.

[JE Pettibone]

[Tim Bonney]

Ed, I think ABC/Indiana became ABC/Indiana and Kentucky a few years ago to welcome in a couple of Kentucky churches. That might be the first place to check for such churches. Does the ABC allow churches within the bounds of one region to affiliate with a different ABC region? I honestly don't remember how that works now.

[Haruo]

[Sandy]

[Haruo]

I think for lot of American Baptists, Southern Baptist clergy coming into our fold have to be subjected to "extreme vetting" as if they were Somali refugees or something. Once they pass, they can apply for citizenship on the fast track.

[JE Pettibone]

[JE Pettibone]

[Sandy]

What is the vetting requirement for clergy coming into ABC-USA from another denomination? And are the churches required to call only ABC-USA endorsed pastors and staff? I'm aware of at least one ABC-USA congregation who has a pastor they've had for a long time who never, as far as I know, went through any vetting process when he was called from an SBC congregation.

[Haruo]

[JE Pettibone]

[Sandy]

What are the denominational requirements for someone moving from a Southern Baptist church to an ABC-USA congregation in a pastoral role, if any? If the churches are independent and autonomous, do they have to follow denominational guidelines for calling pastors and ministers?

[Haruo]

If a church calls someone, that's it. If the one called doesn't measure up to the denominational (regional) standard, then the denomination will not aid her job search when she decides to move on, and if she is listed in a denominational directory, her name is likely to be followed by "(LO)" ("local ordination"). But I don't think there's any particular bar or protocol for those of SBC background. The barrier is one of culture, and often of self-protective reflexes on the part of the ABCers involved. The regional standard generally has to do with having an MDiv, taking a course on ABC history, that sort of thing, I think. Of course I really have no idea what I am talking about.

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]