Election watchdog -Clinton campaign filed 'false' reports

The place to discuss politics and policy issues that are not directly related to matters of faith.

Moderator: Jon Estes

Election watchdog -Clinton campaign filed 'false' reports

Postby Rvaughn » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:45 pm

Election watchdog charges Clinton campaign filed 'false' reports on Trump dossier funding

The nine-page complaint by the campaign watchdog group says nothing about the veracity of the allegations in the dossier, a subject that is still being investigated by special counsel Robert Mueller and three congressional committees.

Instead, it focuses on how the dossier was paid for...and the failure of either the Clinton campaign or the DNC to report the actual purpose of these payments on their legally mandated campaign expenditure reports.
User avatar
Rvaughn
 
Posts: 816
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:54 pm
Location: East Texas

Re: Election watchdog -Clinton campaign filed 'false' report

Postby Sandy » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:47 pm

Old news. It showed up in the DNC's report, and by now, it is a non issue.
Sandy
Sandy
 
Posts: 8743
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 4:10 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Election watchdog -Clinton campaign filed 'false' report

Postby Rvaughn » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:26 am

Not breaking news, but not years old either. I didn't notice any previous mention of it on BL. According to CLC, the FEC has not taken any action on their complaint and it is still pending. Perhaps saying that it is a pending issue is their way of avoiding saying it is a non-issue?
User avatar
Rvaughn
 
Posts: 816
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:54 pm
Location: East Texas

Re: Election watchdog -Clinton campaign filed 'false' report

Postby Sandy » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:38 am

The payments for the dossier were recorded, as required by law, in the DNC's report, not the Clinton campaign. Maybe there's some kind of fuss over how the accounting was handled, but from what I've read, there isn't any "action" that the FEC can take. They're probably very busy with the plethora of issues they are handling with the Trump campaign. Lots of those.
Sandy
Sandy
 
Posts: 8743
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 4:10 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Election watchdog -Clinton campaign filed 'false' report

Postby Rvaughn » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:50 am

The CLC complaint does not seem to be lack of filing, but that it was filed deceptively.
Specifically, the DNC and Hillary for America reported dozens of payments totaling millions of dollars to the law firm Perkins Coie with the purpose described as “Legal Services” or “Legal and Compliance Consulting,” when in reality, at least some of those payments were earmarked for the firm Fusion GPS, with the purpose of conducting opposition research on Donald Trump. By failing to file accurate reports, the DNC and Hillary for America undermined the vital public information role that reporting is intended to serve.
User avatar
Rvaughn
 
Posts: 816
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:54 pm
Location: East Texas

Re: Election watchdog -Clinton campaign filed 'false' report

Postby KeithE » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:06 pm

Sandy wrote:Old news. It showed up in the DNC's report, and by now, it is a non issue.

It may be old news (circa late Oct 2107) but it has not been fully understood by the public. The DNC and Hillary for America (HFA) campaign paid Fusion GPS (a Wash DC opposition research form) through a law firm Perkins Cole about $12.3M to do opposition research on Trump. The DNC and HFA called this payment ‘Legal Services’ or ‘Legal and Compliance Consulting,’ not explicitly saying some of that was for finding dirt on Trump or that knowingly or unknowingly it involved a foreign entity (Christopher Steele) with ties to British Intel.

Calling this a “false statement” rvaughn is overstating the facts. The payments did involve ‘Legal Services’ or ‘Legal and Compliance Consulting,’; it did involve more.

So where do we stand? Hillary probably knowingly used foreign sources in finding dirt on Trump and Trump definitely and knowingly used Russia and Wikileaks in finding dirt on Hillary (face it - Trump even asked for Russia to release 30,000 of her private emails). Hillary paid money to do so and Trump is paying back Russia via policy enactments that favor Russia:
- Trump still has not called out Putin for his takeover of Crimea
- At a minimum Flynn (maybe more) told Russia to not worry about Obama’s sanctions for Crimea after Trump is inaugurated
- Joint Oil deals
- Favorable mention of Putin in he press.

There is still much to do in dealing with the dirty deeds Trump is charged with (prior to his campaign, during his campaign, in the transition, and while in power) and some wrt Hillary's purported misdeeds (mostly misuse of classified info). Neither have been upfront about doing opposition research.

Meanwhile, little effort is going on to prevent the cyber attacks on future elections and no effort at ensuring opposition research transparency in future elections.
Informed by Data.
Driven by the SPIRIT and JESUS’s Example.
Promoting the Kingdom of GOD on Earth.
http://www.weatherly.org/discoverycenter
User avatar
KeithE
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8796
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:02 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL

Re: Election watchdog -Clinton campaign filed 'false' report

Postby Sandy » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:10 pm

Rvaughn wrote:The CLC complaint does not seem to be lack of filing, but that it was filed deceptively.
Specifically, the DNC and Hillary for America reported dozens of payments totaling millions of dollars to the law firm Perkins Coie with the purpose described as “Legal Services” or “Legal and Compliance Consulting,” when in reality, at least some of those payments were earmarked for the firm Fusion GPS, with the purpose of conducting opposition research on Donald Trump. By failing to file accurate reports, the DNC and Hillary for America undermined the vital public information role that reporting is intended to serve.


I've seen some reports that there is a question of how something like this should be filed. I think a lot of what is being put out is part of the flood of "Hillary did this" stuff that comes from the Trump administration to distract media sources from what is happening with the Mueller commission. Depending on the source, this looks more like a filing issue than some kind of conspiracy or cover-up. Some news sources, especially if they are not conservatively biased, print everything that comes from daily briefings and follow the leads, but this hasn't risen above the status of allegation yet. Of course, since this report came out, so have the indictments and so has confirmation of its accuracy. Maybe there's something to this, but I doubt it. I think it's a diversionary tactic to cause an investigation somewhere for distraction. That's been the M.O. of Trump's press office so far.
Sandy
Sandy
 
Posts: 8743
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 4:10 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Election watchdog -Clinton campaign filed 'false' report

Postby KeithE » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:14 pm

Sandy wrote:The payments for the dossier were recorded, as required by law, in the DNC's report, not the Clinton campaign. Maybe there's some kind of fuss over how the accounting was handled, but from what I've read, there isn't any "action" that the FEC can take. They're probably very busy with the plethora of issues they are handling with the Trump campaign. Lots of those.


I have not verified your claim, Sandy that this opposition research “showed up in the DNC’s report” in anyway that explicitly admitted to this opposition research using UK sources. And I have tried. Could yo do so? It is certainly possible Hillary did some things legally or morally wrong as well.

Fox News is piling on this, along with a frontal attack on Mueller. Words are not going dissuade them.
Informed by Data.
Driven by the SPIRIT and JESUS’s Example.
Promoting the Kingdom of GOD on Earth.
http://www.weatherly.org/discoverycenter
User avatar
KeithE
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8796
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:02 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL

Re: Election watchdog -Clinton campaign filed 'false' report

Postby Rvaughn » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:30 pm

Sandy wrote:I think a lot of what is being put out is part of the flood of "Hillary did this" stuff that comes from the Trump administration to distract media sources from what is happening with the Mueller commission.
As far as I can tell the Campaign Legal Center is an "equal-opportunity complainer." They tout their Nonpartisan Record as a Government Watchdog, which includes, for example, filing a complaint with the FEC in October 2016 alleging that a Trump Super Pac illegally solicited foreign contributions.
Last edited by Rvaughn on Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Rvaughn
 
Posts: 816
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:54 pm
Location: East Texas

Re: Election watchdog -Clinton campaign filed 'false' report

Postby Rvaughn » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:34 pm

KeithE wrote:Calling this a “false statement” rvaughn is overstating the facts.
The word "false report" is in the Yahoo headline. I called it "deceptive" -- that is, if what CLC alleges is true, the actual purpose of these payments was purposefully not reported correctly. Of course, even deceptive alleges intent over accident.
User avatar
Rvaughn
 
Posts: 816
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:54 pm
Location: East Texas

Re: Election watchdog -Clinton campaign filed 'false' report

Postby KeithE » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:00 pm

Rvaughn wrote:
KeithE wrote:Calling this a “false statement” rvaughn is overstating the facts.
The word "false report" is in the Yahoo headline. I called it "deceptive" -- that is, if what CLC alleges is true, the actual purpose of these payments was purposefully not reported correctly. Of course, even deceptive alleges intent over accident.

OK I see that. Now I do not know how the money ($12.3M) was split between opposition research by a foreign entity and “legal services”, but I concede that Steele was paid something.

I see deception in most politician's statements. But the degree of deception/exaggeration/hypocrisy/outright lies in Trump’s statements is beyond all precedence. Can you agree with that rvaughn? Did you just see the staged prayer in Trump’s cabinet meeting? or Trump’s claim that his bill will hurt him?
Informed by Data.
Driven by the SPIRIT and JESUS’s Example.
Promoting the Kingdom of GOD on Earth.
http://www.weatherly.org/discoverycenter
User avatar
KeithE
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8796
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:02 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL

Re: Election watchdog -Clinton campaign filed 'false' report

Postby Sandy » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:10 pm

https://www.snopes.com/2017/10/25/dnc-c ... e-dossier/

The "filing a false report" is a claim that was made, but there's no credible news source that is even following the story anymore because there's nothing to the allegation.

The Clinton campaign hired a legal firm, Fusion Inc., as a vendor to provide the services related to the dossier. A private donor paid the bill, apparently through the DNC, or they facilitated it, and it was recorded as "legal services." Here's there statement:

"Hillary for America and the DNC complied with all campaign finance laws, including their obligations to appropriately report and describe the purpose of all of their expenditures. This research work was to support the provision of legal services, and payments made by vendors to sub-vendors are not required to be disclosed in circumstances like this. This complaint fails to even note the Federal Election Commission’s affirmation in 2013 of the relevant rule, notes no authority to the contrary, and is patently baseless."

A 'failure to disclose" is hardly anything close to colluding with the Russians to steal an election, and in this case, if it were the case, the penalty would be a minor fine. This sort of thing is being scatter-shot by the Trump administration, throwing stuff against the wall to see if it sticks. What it is telling us is that Trump is desperate to try to divert and discredit the Mueller investigation, because he must have all the goods he needs, or at least enough, to prove obstruction and collusion.

Good ole Snopes. This is hard to find elsewhere, because credible news sources don't carry news that's not credible.
Sandy
Sandy
 
Posts: 8743
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 4:10 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Election watchdog -Clinton campaign filed 'false' report

Postby Rvaughn » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:09 pm

KeithE wrote:I see deception in most politician's statements.
What's the old adage about how to know they're lying?
KeithE wrote:But the degree of deception/exaggeration/hypocrisy/outright lies in Trump’s statements is beyond all precedence. Can you agree with that rvaughn?
I agree that Trump is a whack job who doesn't care what he says. As far as beyond all precedence, certainly his loud-mouthing is, for any president I've ever seen. Not sure about deception, for many who talk smoothly may have deceived us without being nearly so noticeable or annoying.
KeithE wrote:Did you just see the staged prayer in Trump’s cabinet meeting? or Trump’s claim that his bill will hurt him?
Heard about the former, but not the latter. Which bill? Hurt him how?
User avatar
Rvaughn
 
Posts: 816
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:54 pm
Location: East Texas

Re: Election watchdog -Clinton campaign filed 'false' report

Postby Sandy » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:43 pm

Rvaughn wrote: Which bill? Hurt him how?


The GOP tax reform bill. He claims his billionaire friends are mad at him because it will cost them while it stuffs your pockets with dollars. But in reality, unless you're illiterate, you can see where 80% of the money generated by the cuts will go to the top 1%. I think the estimate on Trump's benefit alone is somewhere in the $1.5 billion ball park. Part of that is coming out of your pocket to pay him.

I'm interested to see how everything worked out in the final bill. I calculated mine, based on one of the earlier versions, and the double standard deduction looks great until you see that you don't get personal exemptions, or any of the other stuff you can take now. I've been able to do much better than standard deduction by itemizing, but without the exemptions, double standard deduction puts me in a higher bracket, and I wind up paying about 10% more tax the first year out.
Sandy
Sandy
 
Posts: 8743
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 4:10 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Election watchdog -Clinton campaign filed 'false' report

Postby Rvaughn » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:04 pm

Sandy wrote:I'm interested to see how everything worked out in the final bill.
As I am, though I am discounting the right edge that says this will take us back to Eden, and the left edge that says it will plunge us headlong into hell.

USA Today has an article that purports to give five different scenarios and how the new tax bill could affect folks in each one.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/taxes/2017/12/20/how-the-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act-could-affect-these-5-households/108773102/
User avatar
Rvaughn
 
Posts: 816
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:54 pm
Location: East Texas

Re: Election watchdog -Clinton campaign filed 'false' report

Postby Sandy » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:54 pm

I'm not so much concerned about being plunged into hell, as I am being plunged into recession, which is what every Republican tax cut trickle down bill like this has done over the past fifty years. This one just has more extreme numbers. I hope that doesn't mean a more extreme recession.
Sandy
Sandy
 
Posts: 8743
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 4:10 pm
Location: Chicago


Return to Politics and Public Policy Issues

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dave Roberts and 1 guest