Moderator: William Thornton
William Thornton wrote:Generally, SBC church membership stats are comparable over the years. I would guess that there has been some trend over the decades in how churches came up with these numbers but from one year to the next I think they can be used to make a comparison. I don't see any sbc leaders blaming losses in membership to changing the way churches report data.
My three churches were all membership heavy but not absurdly so.
Tim Bonney wrote:William Thornton wrote:Generally, SBC church membership stats are comparable over the years. I would guess that there has been some trend over the decades in how churches came up with these numbers but from one year to the next I think they can be used to make a comparison. I don't see any sbc leaders blaming losses in membership to changing the way churches report data.
My three churches were all membership heavy but not absurdly so.
Good to know. Glad there isn't too much inflation.
My church has two different kinds of membership "baptized members" and "professing members." Baptized members are mostly those baptized as infants but who have not yet been confirmed or were never confirmed. Only professing members are counted in our membership stats as active members, though we know how many persons have been baptized as well.
JE Pettibone wrote:
:Ed: That is you know how many Have been "Baptized" as Methodist define Baptism.
Tim Bonney wrote:William Thornton wrote:Generally, SBC church membership stats are comparable over the years. I would guess that there has been some trend over the decades in how churches came up with these numbers but from one year to the next I think they can be used to make a comparison. I don't see any sbc leaders blaming losses in membership to changing the way churches report data.
My three churches were all membership heavy but not absurdly so.
Good to know. Glad there isn't too much inflation.
My church has two different kinds of membership "baptized members" and "professing members." Baptized members are mostly those baptized as infants but who have not yet been confirmed or were never confirmed. Only professing members are counted in our membership stats as active members, though we know how many persons have been baptized as well.
Sandy wrote:
Is there some sort of effort made to move members from baptized to professing, or are most of those members out of touch and not attending? And what's the theology or doctrine behind infant baptism in a Methodist church? Is it actually sacramental, or is it more like the baby dedications Baptists do? I have a stepsister whose grandson and granddaughter, ages 12 and 10, were just baptized in a Methodist church, by immersion, along with a half dozen other kids at the same church, from a VBS. I'm guessing that followed some sort of confirmation, and that would make them professing members.
Tim Bonney wrote:Sandy wrote:
Is there some sort of effort made to move members from baptized to professing, or are most of those members out of touch and not attending? And what's the theology or doctrine behind infant baptism in a Methodist church? Is it actually sacramental, or is it more like the baby dedications Baptists do? I have a stepsister whose grandson and granddaughter, ages 12 and 10, were just baptized in a Methodist church, by immersion, along with a half dozen other kids at the same church, from a VBS. I'm guessing that followed some sort of confirmation, and that would make them professing members.
Yes, we do strongly encourage young people be confirmed in the Church. However if someone has dropped out of church attendance entirely then that may not happen. There is a good bit of encouragement from parents for pre-teen young people to be confirmed as that is part of our faith culture as well as our theology.
Yes, baptism is a sacrament as is Holy Communion. For United Methodists baptism is an act of God whereby God provides grace to the person being baptized. It is not an act of the pastor or the individual. It is an example of what Methodists call “prevenient grace” which is God’s grace working in us before we profess our own faith and is there to lead us on the path to personal faith.
linda wrote:I have no clue how Calvinism is affecting the SBC. But I do know the local church has 3 less attending/members because of it:) Our local choice was hyper Cal and/or hyper Cal hyper fundy YEC. We loved the UMC services but being conservative, don't attend there. Local church here is more conservative than the whole denom, but we found more to our liking the Church of the Nazarene. And yet our church, we are told, lost members years ago when the CotN decided dispensational teaching was not in accord with Wesleyanism. Local church is still, however, a blend of those theologies. Sort of dispy/Arminian.
So I guess theological change does sometimes result in folks leaving a given body.
My question: do ya'll for see a coming split in the SBC into two conventions, modified Arminian and Calvinist?
I am not SBC and have no particular insight on this issue. That never keeps me from having an opinion!linda wrote:My question: do ya'll for see a coming split in the SBC into two conventions, modified Arminian and Calvinist?
linda wrote:My question: do ya'll for see a coming split in the SBC into two conventions, modified Arminian and Calvinist?
William Thornton wrote:linda wrote:My question: do ya'll for see a coming split in the SBC into two conventions, modified Arminian and Calvinist?
I do not see this. There are tensions but there is no good way to divide the assets and while some individuals and churches may leave, these are very few. The divide is not nearly as deep as with the conservative/moderate controversy where relatively few churches left and no SBC entities.
More likely are (1) a heightened awareness by individual churches of the impact on their congregation of a Calvinist pastor. Church pastor search committees are more educated on the Calvinist/Traditionalist (the preferred term for non Calvinists) matter and direct their minister search accordingly, and (2) an increased scrutiny on the hiring of SBC entity leaders relative to their theology.
William Thornton wrote:Yeah. I saw that. Ed especially will appreciate what is said about Mohler.
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