Not Everyone in CBF is Celebrating

[Tim Bonney]

[Sandy]

[Dave Roberts]

Sandy, I love your glittering generalizations--"many," "large," "we're prophetic," and others about churches. I guess you get a page from Trump--when you don't have facts, generalize.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Dave Roberts]

All of this hinges around the "discernment model" for decision making that was adopted in Greensboro. Those who want to change the statement on employing gays think this is their opportunity. Those who fear changing the policy have raised a smokescreen that this is to ditch the hiring policy. I heard neither of those mentioned in the discussions at the General Assembly. I have talked previously with Suzi about the hiring policy, and the stands CBF has taken. She feels that we are in the right place already in that both sides are about equally upset, so that positions CBF about where it needs to be.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Sandy]

It seems that the hiring policy is going to have to be one way or the other. I like the comment about both sides being equally upset, so it must be in the right place. If you've ever served in a church, you know exactly what that means.

I was around when CBF started up, belonged to one of its most supportive congregations for more than a decade, and participated in a number of its general assemblies and regional meetings. Among the things which I found attractive about it was that in its polity, it really did strive to be genuinely true to its Baptist identity and roots. While it did identify some common threads related to its organizational structure, it does allow churches to become involved, or disengage, pretty much at will. It has made policy, and identified some theological perspectives that are part of its in-house guidelines regarding employees. The hiring policy, and the funding policy, represent the will of their constituency.

I think they need to be careful. Hiring is a personnel matter, not a place to make a statement. Using the denominational structure to make statements is certainly a big reason why many churches joined CBF, and distanced themselves from the SBC. And while it has attracted some Baptists who are more theologically liberal, especially on LGBT issues, it is still largely made up of Baptists who believe that all sinners must go down the pathway to conviction and repentance in order to receive grace that saves. The biggest difference between them and the SBC is that they're willing to continue ministry cooperation with you if you feel differently, but they also feel that the fellowship organization needs to be sympathetic to the perspective of its constituents, and also understand that's part of its identity.

[Tim Bonney]

Yes, it the hiring policy will have to be one way or another. You can't really say the gospel is for everyone but we are going to discriminate in hiring practices. Too many people just won't accept that argument anymore. They'll be come non-church attenders before they'll keep living with the hypocrisy or they'll find a more progressive church to attend.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Tim Bonney]

Thanks for the compliment Ed. While I like a lot of people in the CBF, it is more conservative than the ABC and just some what less conservative than the SBC. It is a group caught in a limbo of the past and refusing to move on to the future.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Tim Bonney]

Ed, yes I've attended a CBF General Assembly and I'm a former contributing member of the CBF.

Don't get me wrong, I really like CBF folks. They just aren't as progressive s they think they are. Some CBF people I know in this area think they are progressives because they'll ordain women (despite their church never having a woman pastor). That only counts as progressive if you are a Baptist. The CBF is more conservative than the ABC and the UMC, the two most conservative mainline denominations. Sorry you don't want to hear that. But that is how the CBF is perceived outside of the CBF unless you are a Southern Baptist where everyone else looks like a liberal.

[William Thornton]

I believe the only time I met Timothy was at the CBF meeting in Atlanta, way back.

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

Last comment on the CBF Ed and then I'll quit talking about Baptists for a while.

I think the CBF is a great organization. It just isn't an organization that I ended up being very involved in because, when it started, there were so few CBF churches available. Thus I went ABC at the time.

But the CBF fits a very specific small niche. It is mostly a niche for disaffected Southern Baptists and churches. It does a decent job of filling that niche. But I wonder about the future of such a niche, particularly if they continue to try to straddle the fence on big issues.

My denomination is having similar problems in that we are so evenly divided on the issue of LGBT acceptance that we are near schism.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Tim Bonney]

Glad to hear that Ed. Someone else was telling me that in another forum.

[Sandy]

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: I agree with Sandy when he says he thinks " Daniel Vestal and the others who met together and got things moving really did intend to be a fellowship within the denomination." And I am rather sure that the insurgent leadership believed that also and that was why they put on the pressure to prevent us from operating within the SBC denominational Structure. I have been a bit surprised at the number of churches that continued to support the CP although their tolerance of members who are involved with CBF tends to render the church mute at the Associational and Convention levels. I anticipate that being something of a problem for me when we start RVing full time next spring., For the winter I do not anticipate any problem finding a church in Georgia, North or South Carolina,or possibly in Virginia or Alabama where we can feel at home.

[Tim Bonney]

I think Ed nails it mentioning that many CBF churches are till dually aligned, at least partially. That creates ambivalence on the local level even if not at the national level.

If the UMC splits over sexuality issues our polity wouldn't allow for half way. You'd be in one denomination or the other. Honestly, I think that makes for a cleaner break. Not less painful. But maybe cleaner.

[Ed Pettibone]