SBC Overwhelming in affirmation of Dr McKissic's resolution

[Sandy]

http://www.wbrc.com/story/32221893/sout ... cial-unity

There might have been some who thought this resolution wouldn't make it off the floor. Not only did it make it, but the watered down version proposed by the resolutions committee was strengthened considerably before it was passed. The SBC has made it clear how it feels about the confederate flag. It is not, in their opinion, a memorial to those who died in the Civil War, or a symbol of "Southern culture and values." It's not possible to get past the statements of confederate leaders, and its foundational documents, which declared not only a belief that African Americans were inferior to whites, and were willed by God to be slaves, but that this belief was a core value of the Confederate States.

Jerry Young, president of the National Baptist Convention, joined in a discussion with SBC pastors of various races, brought together by Ronnie Floyd, on racial reconciliation. This isn't the first time leaders from the National Baptists have had this dicussion with SBC leaders, or have been present and visible at the convention. What do you think, William? Are we coming close to a merger? The two groups already have a fraternal relationship that goes back to the days when the SBC provided financial support to the college and seminary in Nashville. There are a lot of dually affiliated churches between the two.

[Stephen Fox]

Until SBC leadership are honest about the racism of Helms, Pressler and McAteer, the driving forces in the takeover, and have a working conversational knowledge of Atwater's memo about the morphing and evolution of wedge issues in the politics of SBC most notably in Land in concert with Rove through the Bush era, Russ Moore's tears are crocodile tears.

[Sandy]

[Stephen Fox]

One, Sandy, Wuthnow's book is about two years old now as is Balmer on the role of the Takeover of the SBC re President Carter. So it is true the History is Not Revisionist but tells the truth about the Texas Regulars, the Citizens Council and the Leadership of the Takeover.

World is passing Russ Moore by. Here is what they shoulda been talking about while they were finishing up skirmishes of the Civil War which last time I checked was 150 years ago

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/16/opini ... share&_r=0

[William Thornton]

Stephen, of course, is stuck in the 1980s. Hasn't had a new thought in a generation.

[Stephen Fox]

http://religionnews.com/2016/06/14/sout ... ttle-flag/

Im bumbfuzzled by Pressler not getting the microphone. Ronnie Floyd owes everything to Pressler.

And it is simply not Biblican for Thornton to suggest I haven't had a new though since the 80s. He musta had a brainfreeze and got me confused with Vince Dooley minus the master gardener status.

[Stephen Fox]

https://baptiststoday.org/timing-matters/

[Sandy]

[Stephen Fox]

He has family ties to Tom Elliff

Lankford, a member of US senate Homeland Security was just on CNN--find utube--with Wolf Blitzer dodging questions about the political power of the NRA

Im with Johnny Pierce as distinct toSandy. The SBC lags behind about 15 years and they will belate ongun control just like now they are a generation late on Confederate flag after using like metrics in their takeover. We are 150 years away from slavery, about 50 from Jim Crow and ten or 15 from the fundamentalist takeover of the Southern Baptist Convention spearheaded by racists like Pressler Helms and Mcateer.

Mohler and Moore stand on their shoulders.

Be proud Sandy, be Proud

[Sandy]

You know, Stephen, your themes kind of stay the same, except every now and then you pick up on something that's a hot topic. You've never mentioned anywhere in your long diatribes and name dropping sessions, anything about Pressler, McAleer or Helms being racist. Until, that is, the discussion turns to racial reconciliation. Now they're racists. I guess they've ceased being John Birchers, which was one of your previous themes. And that was after just being political conservatives with their eye on the votes of Southern Baptists.

Won't be long before we'll discover that Pressler has connections to ISIS.

[Stephen Fox]

I like you Sandy but if you didn't know the Citizens Council, the Regs and the Birchers were racists there is not much I can do for your ignorance.

I have been talking about the driving force of the takeover for 20 years now. In the last two years Wutnow in Rough Country has pretty much ratified what I have been saying about Pressler,Helms, Albert Lee Smith and McCateer all along not to mention the consistency of Bill Moyers.

I didn't know you were just faking attention.

God Help Us

[Stephen Fox]

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/southern-bap ... -cms-23483

Paige's Israel Resolution was diabolical

McCarty was Helms choice to head theNC GOP in 84

[Sandy]

[William Thornton]

Hey, new conspiracy theories and nefarious connections are constantly born in Stephen's hyperactive mind. The past isn't really past..its recreated and embellished daily.

[Tim Bonney]

Sandy, that's an awful lot of writing to dip back into the argument of takeover/resurgence.

I have to agree with William that the events Stephen is stuck on are a generation ago. So I'm not sure now why it is so important for you to try to convince the rest of us who are either Moderate Baptists (or in my cased a former Baptist now progressive Methodist) that we are seeing things wrong. But surely past responses should make you realize you are wasting electrons with everyone here who doesn't already agree with you.

[Sandy]

[Stephen Fox]

But it isn't

Of course all stemwinders have a little truth inthem but on the whole Sandy is locked in to a distracting if not false narrative.

One of the most insightful analysis of the LBJ administration has been written in the last year, William and he was out of office before Pressler got rollin. So much for your Fox Stuck in time nonsense.

Back to Sandy, My last 30 year experience is Bama. Church of the Highlands has 14 campuses and pretty much face of SBC future in the state. Rick and Bubba are the popular face of the 14 campuses. Like the GOP is now the captive of the NRA, the flotsam and jetsam populists likeRick and Bubba have captured Pressler's SBC. All your veneer about this bright energetic young conservative leadership is just polishing up an old sick mule. My God they elected Steve Gaines.

Steve Gaines is gonna chart a better course for the next 40 years than the vision Marney and Bill Self and their kind had in the 60s. You got to be kiddin me. And then there is Trey Gowdy and the Franklin Graham machine at FBC Spartanburg. Pathetic analysis Sandy, Pathetic.

[William Thornton]

The SBC's newest churches have a heavy proportion that are minority and ethnic. It used to be that our favorite methodology of planting churches was to have one angry group of white folks split from another group of white folks and start their own church. Do this and repeat and, presto, you've got church multiplication.

Today, ethnic and African-American churches are quite common in the SBC. Some have dual affiliation. Minority representation as trustees and in entity positions is a goal stated by just about every SBC leader. It is routine on other online forums for me to interact with black pastors who are solidly SBC. This is all different than 20 years ago. John Pierce might note the tardiness of all this and have somewhat of a point but no one but frozen-in-time Fox would attempt to deny it.

As a fellowship of churches, I'd venture the wild conjecture that the CBF is much more lily white these days than the SBC. I recognize that the NBC expresses something about the CBF's values on race and ethnicity. A good task would be for one of you to give me a percentage of CBF churches that are minority and ethnic...but then I recall that there is no good way to determine exactly how many churches are uniquely or significantly (in terms of budget) CBF. Perhaps a couple of hundred?

The SBC is a slightly declining in membership but slightly increasing I numbers of churches. Sandy captures the moment by noting that even the two PPs, SBC royalty, have to stand in line with SBc commoners. The pastor of the SBC's most prominent mega-church (all that church's pastors have been SBC presidents, going back about a century) barely wins an election over a new-megachurch type whose main claim is that more IMB missionaries call his church their home church than any other church in SBC hIstory.

Pay attention, Stephen. Learn something.

[Tim Bonney]

Last I read the SBC has about the same rate of decline that the UMC has, about 2%.

[William Thornton]

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

[Sandy]

[Sandy]

[Tim Bonney]

I'm willing to bet if some fundamentalist preacher hadn't brought up the word "inerrancy" some years ago the lay people wouldn't be demanding that anyone believe it because they'd have never heard of it.

I applaud the SBC's move to more diverse churches. I hope that diversity will move its way up to leadership.