The Great Divides

[Cathy]

While I was googling Hagee I was then diverted down a path googling Criswell and charismatics. That caused me to run into an exchange that I quite enjoyed. It was however very far from my original search. This could be in the CBF or SBC forum but since the event occurred in an SBC institution I post it here. It is 1 hour and 17 minutes but I enjoyed it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtru1yMaXaE

[Cathy]

The video is of Roger Olson and Paige Patterson in a discussion that begins with Dr. Olson telling Paige Patterson why he believes Patterson is an Arminian. Calvinism is discussed alone with 5, 4, 2, and 1 points. Then with a question from the audience the discussion moved to the Trinity and eventually Patterson's pastor asks the inevitable inerrancy question. It was all pretty friendly. There was one point in the Trinity discussion that R. Olson said we will have to disagree (I believe this was Yarnell).

This is the first time I have seen a Truett professor speaking at SWBTS. Though no one else seems to find it noteworthy at BL I think there are those that will enjoy Dr. Olson and find the exchange refreshing considering the years since Truett was launched and the limited interaction between the two camps.

[Haruo]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Tim Bonney]

Is Olsen the professor who has a pretty significant blog about arminianism? I think I have read his work on occasion.

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: I have as promised gone back and listened to the entire discussion and I did not hear a part where Dr. Olson says something like " we will after disagree" . I could have missed it. If anyone finds it, I hope you will cite something to help me identify it.

But I am now convinced that Cathy is mistaken about there being any Criswell Professor involved. The session was held on the Campus of Southwestern Seminary where Patterson is President. This time, I did hear an individual who identified himself as Patterson's Pastor and Patterson present an unusual inerrancy argument saying we use the term inerrancy to refute the moderates claim that there are errors in the Bible. I am sorry the "discussion" ended there. I believe Patterson did meekly agree that "there may be a better word" . Which brought to mind that Al Mohler's hero in the faith Carl F. H. Henry A Calvinist a leading Calvinist said it even more clearly.

I want to thank Cathy for bring this event to my attention. I still prefer not to identify as either an Arminian or a Calvinist but as a Christian. In fairness I think the same can be said of Patterson although he and I do not sing out of the hymn book.

I wonder if perhaps some one could persuade Dr. Olsen to give BL.com participants as a group, some time at the upcoming 25h anniversary of CBF in June.

Yes Tim This was/is the Same Roger Olson. He and I where raised in the same Wesleyan tradition and both became Baptist.

[John Sneed]

This is the second thread in which Cathy mentions Calvinism. I suspect she finds it distasteful.

And this is the Roger Olsen who said he could not tell the difference between the God Calvinists worship and Satan. Nuff said there.

John

[Ed Pettibone]

[William Thornton]

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

[Sandy]

Yeah, have to say that I don't find much about which to disagree with Roger Olson.

[Tim Bonney]

[Cathy]

I'm sorry for my mistakes in my reply to my own post. I actually asked to have it removed so I could go back and fix it. I couldn't figure out how to delete it myself. I did indeed mean Truett but I guess because of the source of my original google search I had the other name on my mind. No Truett is not Criswell and given the home in which I was raised and the city I spent most of my adult life I am aware of that. I have now edited that. But really, isn't all that discussion of my errors dull and kind of old fashion nitpicking. I am often multitasking and should pay a bit more attention. I have had my punishment and I will try to do better. The amount of time trying to decipher my comments instead of going to the link and commenting makes me wonder what you all are thinking. I only put in the (too quick) reply to my own post because the link went unnoticed.

My illusion to the divides were...
SBC and CBF,
Truett and SWBTS,
Arminians and Calvinists,
the Trinity as doctrine vs a construct of our faith (and that is probably a poor statement of the mini divide, I'm no theologian)
"inerrancy" and refusing to accept the word inerrancy,

I believe a careful listen will reveal that Patterson mentions Yarnell's name when he acknowledges him before the Trinity question is asked. Patterson introduces his pastor followed by a bit of joking and then his pastor asks the inerrancy question (this is very near the end). However someone may have entered the discussion and Dr. Olson may be referring to him.

John, I have no memory of my posting on Calvinism. I'll have to look it up. I am not a Calvinist. While I enjoyed Dr. Olson's discussion It was not my intent to post a mostly calvinist vs arminian discussion but to highlight a pleasant exchange between the two baptist seminaries in Texas. The content of the discussion is however interesting to me and surprisingly enjoyable.

[Cathy]

[Tim Bonney]

Thanks for the clarification Cathy.

I'm sure the Arminianism discussion came about largely because one of the participants is a strong proponent.

As to inerrancy, we've gone around that mountain quite a few times here. Yet outside of the SBC and former SBC related folks, it doesn't seem to be a topic of discussion.

[Cathy]

[Sandy]

[Tim Bonney]

I've not read it recently Sandy. But Dr. Olsen spends a lot more time talking about Arminianism that most Baptists I've run into since Dale Moody argued for the possibility of apostasy. I think Dr. Oslen is gutsy for swimming against the current stream of Calvinism in the SBC. I'd say that focus makes him a little different than the average SBCer. Give the man credit where credit is due.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Tim Bonney]

[Haruo]

My apologies to Cathy for not getting back to her on the request for deletion. I didn't see her message till the thread had been up for a couple days and already had a dozen comments (including my own on the "have to = after" controversy and I was reluctant to delete the thread. Meant to tell her that in a PM but forgot to before I got home (I can't do much moderatorially from my phone).

[Cathy]

[Haruo]

It's been several months since I last made it to Fremont Baptist. I've done most of my recent church at the UMC-affiliated, German-language Friedenskirche and online Saturday mornings at the Facebook prayer group (Esperanto-language, Catholic-affiliated, Prague-based) Komunumo de Preĝantaj Kristanoj. Sorry about the Fox-like lack of links, Ed.

[Haruo]

There.