Baptists who are moving to the UCC

[Tim Bonney]

http://www.abpnews.com/ministry/people/ ... ucc-church

Interesting article about a former CBF moderator who is moving to ministry in the UCC and another Baptist pastor and journalist moving to a UCC church here in Iowa.

http://www.abpnews.com/ministry/people/ ... ts-for-ucc

I've worshipped several times at Plymouth Congregational Church in Des Moines. It is a good church.

[Haruo]

It seems to me that for a Baptist who isn't particularly gung-ho for immersion, and who is on the liberal end of most social and theological issues of the day, the UCC may make for a good fit. Many well-known liberal ABC churches are dually aligned with the UCC, including Riverside and Judson in NYC; Peter Gomes was ordained ABC but served at Harvard.

[Sandy]

From an organizational standpoint, the UCC is a good fit for those who self-identify, or are considered to be "on the left" when it comes to their Baptist identity. I believe there's a former member of this board, Joshua Villines, who served for a while as an associate at a dually aligned Baptist-UCC congregation in Atlanta.

I have to smile just a little, at some of the rhetoric involved when a pastor moves on. I understand the sense of ministry calling. But whether you're conservative or liberal, the language surrounding a move doesn't change much.

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

[Sandy]

Ah, yes, though unfortunately, with both Baptists and UCC, that's not possible. Being honest might work. Some suggestions, tongue in cheek of course.

"I've been here fifteen years, and the church is half the size it was when I came. I'm sorry I haven't been able to motivate you deadbeat people to do evangelism and outreach, so I found a congregation that is willing to commit to something better for me. Catch ya' later."

"My resume is always up to date, and circulating, and it wound up in a larger congregation with a bigger salary, nicer sanctuary, bigger expense allowance and which will employ my wife as preschool and children's minister. We took it."

"I see that the neighborhood around our church is changing, so I am getting out before the attendance declines and you cut my salary."

"You're tired of me, I'm certainly tired of you, so I put my resume out and am going to a place where I can start over with my bag of tricks."

Don't know if that applies to the pastors mentioned in this thread, but I'll bet that hits home more often than not.

[Tim Bonney]

Well, "The Bishop moved me..." can be a similarly misleading if the pastor wanted to move and leaves out something like "because I requested a move and wanted the heck out of here!" Or, "The Bishop is moving me because you asked him/her to get rid of me." etc.

[Tim Bonney]

Back on topic, I think if someone was leaving the Baptist fold and wanted polity not too different from the Baptist world probably the UCC or maybe the DOC would be the two easiest choices.

[Haruo]

[Tim Bonney]

True Haruo. I was thinking that most of the clergy I know who have left SBC related life have left because they thought the SBC was too convservative. It probably has as much to do with the people I know and the circles I travel in. But I really don't know many clergy who left the SBC for another denomination who didn't do so to go to something more liberal. Sandy or other conservatives in the group might be able to think of friends who have done so.

Right now though I know (or know about) former SBC pastors who are no longer Baptist who are UCC, DOC, PCUSA, UMC, and TEC. There are probably others in other denominations. I just don't know about it. I've honestly run into more former Baptists in the UMC than I expected.

[Sandy]

I had a good friend who was ordained in a Southern Baptist church, and was called to a D of C congregation as their "interim," then was called as their pastor and never went through the process of getting credentials in the D of C. That particular congregation was a bit more conservative than the denomination, their worship guy was SBC as well. It was through knowing him that I discovered the independence and autonomy of the D of C, which is quite strong. But according to him, it's tough to get a pulpit in the D of C. They have a lot of ministers in their late 50's and 60's, and very few vacancies open up, because of a steep decline in membership, attendance and finances. Many of their pastors now serve two congregations.

The UCC appears to be in a downward membership trend as well, at least if the info they report to Wikipedia is correct. The 2002 Handbook of Denominations has their 2000 membership at 1.7 million, but the current report shows just under 980,000. Likewise the D of C figures are 1.2 million in 2000, and 625,000 in 2013. I know a lot of that depends on how they count members, some denominations using the attendance report from year to year, others the "head tax" that congregations pay based on membership to the denomination. But I think if those numbers are close to correct, pastoral opportunities might not be abundant.

[Ed Pettibone]

[KeithE]

We have an ex UCC minister (still active in counseling and tennis) attending our church because he found it "reverent and congenial"

[Tim Bonney]

Ed, I think the local UCC churches are much like the ABC in that the local church decides if they are going to follow the views of the denomination or not. My impression is that the UCC is over all more liberal than the ABC but I do know there are individual congregations that would probably agree with many of your views. Be that as it may, It sounds like you made the choice that fits your faith the best. That is what matters.

[Shawn Koester]

The UCC is an interesting case study in Congregationalism because their tradition is a blend of Congregational (Reformed Anglicans/Presbyterians), Reformed (Presbyterian), Evangelical (Lutheran) and some congregations that wanted no part in the Stone Campbell movement (Christian). Their polity is both bottom up (congregationalism) and top down (hierarchical- Presbyterian/Lutheran). UCC polity does jive well with either Disciples or Baptist polity because we are bottom up with no top down. UCC is more clerical than either Baptist or Disciples traditions. I wouldn't fit too well in many parts of the UCC because while I am LGBT affirming, and affirming of women in ministry, they would look with suspicion at my Evangelical and Baptist identities. If I were to serve with the UCC it would have to be in places like Trinity UCC Chicago, or Victory for the World in Stone Mountain GA. if I were to be a Congregationalist it would have to be with the National Association of Congregational Christian Churches (NACCC). The UCC would be a good fit for those who are theologically and/or socially liberal, and weren't too keen on baptism by immersion.

[Tim Bonney]

I like the UCC's social stands. But Congregationalist is a deal breaker. I don't think I'm likely to ever serve another church with congregational polity.

[Sandy]

[Shawn Koester]

[Shawn Koester]

[Tim Bonney]

The congregation in the UCC still has the final say on its life. Where the connectionalism happens in the UCC is with ordination and national denominational policies. It actually isn't structured all that different from the ABC/USA in some respects.

At this point in my life I have come to appreciate the historic episcopacy.

[Chris]

[Shawn Koester]

[Tim Bonney]

Funny, I would say the UCC is neither hierarchical enough or clerical enough for my taste.

I would concur that the DOC is a good choice for many former Baptists.

[KeithE]

[Haruo]