Convicted child molester dominates talk of Jerry Vines' bio

[William Thornton]

Since Fox completely missed the newsworthy aspect of this. I'll help out.

LifeWay's B & H Publishing just released the of Jerry Vines. Unfortunately, the publicity surrounding it is focused on an offhand mention in the bio of Vine''s relationship with convicted sex abuser Darryl Gilyard.

Gilyard was one of the shooting stars pumped by Vines and Paige Patterson. He was also a sexual predator who was eventually convicted and served in prison. Vines makes a reference to Gilyard in which he either glosses over or misstates Gilyard's behavior with a teen in Vines' church youth group. He uses the term "flirtation" but admits he may have misunderstood at the time. The victim contacted LifeWay and LifeWay agreed to edit the book in subsequent printings.

ABP has an on the matter. Follow the links or Google the names and get all you want on the sordid history of this predator.

I like Jerry Vines but it puzzles me why he included any mention of Gilyard. Perhaps it was a case where if he didn't he would be criticized just as severely.

Gilyard, incidentally, is on the comeback trail but social media watchdogs will hound him mercessly. He should leave the ministry.

[Sandy]

I've got a problem with a pastor who thinks so highly of himself that he writes, and gets Lifeway to publish his autobiography. It probably would have been better to have someone else write a biography, but even then, it seems a bit self serving to me. Of course, Vines is a classic self-promoter, and got caught up in the Gilyard mess precisely because that old, Southern, good-ole-boy, path to prominence and prestige via the "kingmakers" was ingrained in his way of doing things. I think he mentioned Gilyard, and softened the issue considerably in doing so, because he thinks he can polish off some of the tarnish that has accumulated on his reputation as a result. He's getting his spin in print, downplaying the issue considerably in the process. He'll have to take the consequences of all of the discussion that results.

Vines sort of fell out of favor as a result of the Gilyard incident, and even before that, I got the impression that a lot of younger pastors and church leaders thought he was out of touch. Maybe he, Mac Brunson, Steve Gaines and Jerry Sutton could collaborate on a book about how Good-Ole-Boy pastoring can reduce a megachurch's attendance by more than half in a short period of time.

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: Sandy I doubt that Vines had any problem getting Lifeway to publish his autobiography, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if they invited him to write it.

Personally I prefer Autobiography to Biography be it a pastor or a politician. Claims in an autobiography seem to me to be easier to document or dispute.

As for his account of his association with Gilyard, I imagine he felt compelled to mention it because it is the most damaging thing in his history that detractors point to, and he thought he needed to get a jump on that criticism. I agree with William that it is a mistake for any one to to Judge the Book or the life and Ministry of Vines based on that factor alone.

In that I do not expect this book to shed new light on the take over, I probably will not invest in it. I may however spend some time over at the Mid America Seminary Schenectady extension campus, in the library reading it, after we get back from the ABC-USA Missions conference later this month.

[Tim Bonney]

[Haruo]

From one of the links it looked like maybe he was planning to plant his own new church. Sort of thing that cries out for an application of connectionalism. Though of course the recent Roman Catholic experience (not to mention many previous examples in many organizations) shows that connectionalism in and of itself is not a sure solution.

[Tim Bonney]

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: Tim FYI, On Gilyard try http://www.christianpost.com/news/pasto ... ity-70039/

[Dave Roberts]

I was on the same flight with Vines into Atlanta following an SBC. He spent most of his time glad-handing up and down the aisles with everyone he knew. Finally, a flight attendant had to tell him to sit down so they could complete beverage service. He was quite unhappy about that as he went about celebrating the convention. I was not impressed then nor would I buy his book.

[Mrs Haruo]

Ewwwwww as in walking through a restroom where the toilet overflowed ewwwww. Why any church organization would let a known preditor behind the pulpit is beyond me.

[William Thornton]

I recognize that my mod/lib friends are not big fans of Vines but the point here was about the child molestor and Vine's remembrance in his bio of him.

They guy was Vines youth minister. They went on a youth trip. An 18 year old member of the youth group came back and said Gilyard attached her. She now describes it as attempted rape. She met with Vines. He recalls "flirtation" not "attack". The victim, Tiffany Croft, is one reason Gilyard is outed as a serial adulterer, predator, and child sex abuser. She and others, not Vines and Patterson, are more responsible for blowing the whistle on Gilyard illustrating the old practice of putting problem people away quietly so as not to draw attention to our church or our personnel decisions. One hopes that this has changed.

[KeithE]

[Sandy]

If the reviewers are accurate in describing the way Vines handled this in his book, then he missed an opportunity to make a clear, biblical statement about this incident. I understand that mega church pastors, especially those who live by the use of their prestige and influence, aren't prone to admit to mistakes.

I'm not so sure that Vines is all that revered in the SBC any more. Will I read his book? No. Not interested. As far as Gilyard goes, while I personally don't believe he is qualified to serve in ministry any more, in Baptist polity, that's up to any church that wants to give him consideration. I've personally never met a search committee that would even give someone like that a second thought.

[Tim Bonney]

[Sandy]

[Tim Bonney]

Sandy, American Baptists have a helping system of recognition for clergy. If a clergy person isn't recognized that is often a red flag that there is a problem. But even then the local church can hire whom ever.

I used to teach using Shurden's four freedoms book. I always thought it was a good book in teaching a basic Baptist perspective. The views now seem prety foreign to me. But that is because I've changed, not because Shurden or Baptists have changed.

[William Thornton]

Stephen, you are going to be on topic and relevant here or not comment. Thanks.

[Sandy]

[Tim Bonney]

The skill of search committees is quite varied. I've interviewed with some very insightful committees. And I've interviewed with a few who really didn't seem to know what they were doing.

As you say, a lot of search committee members know nothing about seminaries, accreditation, etc. I'm glad you were advising them. In the ABC the Area Minister often takes on that role. But even with good advise, search committees can really decide to blow it if they want.

[Dave Roberts]

Most state bodies, some local associations, and all intentional interim ministers can train a search committee. A good interim can also serve as the advisor on process for a search committee. The problem often is that the churches do not avail themselves of the resources that are available to them. In the process, two things are essential. The first is to create a church profile in which the congregation articulates who they are. This is often the sticking point because many churches will tell you, "We know who we are." The written expression of that identity is a great help to candidates, and it often provides the church a look at itself that hasn't been taken in years, if at all.

The second task is to draft a candidate profile reflecting the needs and desires of the congregation. Then the congregation can match that profile to the people being considered. Trial sermons prove nothing. R. G. Lee refused to ever preach one, and he was right. Dr. Lee said, "Any fool can preach one." The emphasis needs to be on a far wider set of information. Also, congregations MUST invest in a criminal background check on any serious candidate. I would not want to serve a church that did not.

References are not the most reliable. All of us put the people on our resumes who will say good things about us. I teach committees to ask those references, "Can you give me the name and telephone number of someone else who knows this person with whom I could talk?" Those second (and sometimes third) tier people become the more reliable providers of information for the church. The lack of due diligence on the part of search committees is one of the greatest problems in Baptist life. It provides not only bad matches for congregations but introduces folks who come with agendas to change a church. Here in Virginia, that is especially true of some who come to churches affiliated with the BGAV with the sole purpose of getting the church to change its affiliation to the SBCV. Committees need to know the relationships of potential pastors to state bodies and their desires in that realm. I know one large church that got such a pastor and had 400 members go to another congregation over the way the change of state conventions was done.

[Sandy]

I would guess that even after the search committee has done excellent work, most people in the congregation are going to vote based on what they think of the "trial sermon." I once asked an older member how he felt about the committee's choice after an open forum where they got to ask all the questions they wanted. He was pleased, thought the guy was good, but said, "I'll wait to decide after I hear him preach."

[Lou]

Sandy makes a good point about the weight that is given to the 'trial sermon' that the prospective pastor preaches before a congregational vote is taken to call him/her as pastor. That might be due to the assumption on the part of Joe and Jane Churchmember that the Search Committee has performed due diligence in vetting the candidate on all other matters (an assumption that might or might not be true). And since the Sunday morning sermon is a lot of folks' primary (if not only) point of contact with the pastor's ministry, I suppose it's understandable--if not necessarily laudable--that folks might weigh an individual's candidacy with the scales tipped one way or another based on the strength of that single sermon.