Reply to Tim; Re S. Paynter call to church planting

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: Tim, I know I am quite late in responding to your last post in this forum dated 1/6/2014 before now I had started a few responses and deleted them
because the did not say I feel was needed. Therefore am starting a new thread

I am inclined to agree that just because there is no "BAPTIST" church in the area is not in itself a good reason to start a new congregation. And in fact Like Suzi Paynters' predecessor Danial Vestal, I am not enthused about starting CBF churches, period. For years we have said the CBF is not a denomination but what other entity plants churches. Ah! Yes independent Churches plant new churches in an area where they will not compete for members with the mother church.

No! I am not saying that CBF should not be involved in Church planting. Just not in planting CBF churches. CBF in my humble opinion needs to stick to "Enabling Baptist Churches and Individuals in being the presence of God where they are". This would include all Baptist who ask for our assistance. As I have suggested in other discussions CBF could be a great help to the ABC-USA in the expansion of our denomination in what has traditionally been seen as SBC territory. The fact Is ABC has an "ABC of the South" region the majority of their churches are Black. I am not as conversant with whatever if any, cooperation there has been between that region and CBF, as I would like to be.

On the other hand I do think I understand folk in the South who find it increasingly imposable to support a church that is hardwired to the SBC when participation in CBF automatically precludes their being active in the operation of the denomination that is where I was when we moved to Cincinnati in 1995. So I do see a need for them to establish some new Baptist churches. But why CBF Churches?

Although Trudy and I have been active CBF from it origin and the BFNE (Baptist Fellowship of the Northeast- this areas CBF presence), since coming to NY in 2002 I am disappointed that the bulk of that small group have remained basically ignorant of the ABC and present their churches as CBF churches. There is one long time female member of that group who in the past few years has taken the initiative to become the pastor of an ABC-USA church. And as I have mentioned in the past, the Dean of Students at Yale Divinity School is a participant in BFNE, he is also a member of an ABC church and a past president of the ABC-USA of Connecticut Region. In addition there is one church affiliated with BFNE that is also affiliated with the Alliance of Baptist and ABC-USA through the NYC Region. Our ABC-USA Church is a member of the New York State Region and we hosted the BFNE spring meeting a couple years ago We us the Nurturing Faith SS Material in Baptists Today, we also help support Central Seminary where Dr. Molly Marshal is President. Central is something of a hybrid ABC-USA /CBF Seminary but we are not a CBF Church.

[Big Daddy Weaver]

All,

You might be interested in this story in the on Phyllis Boozer, the new coordinator of the BFNE (who I'm sure you know).

The entire issue is online at: http://tinyurl.com/cbffebmar

I wasn't a big proponent of church planting (CBF uses the language of "church starting") before joining CBF. But, I've met church starters, learned about the mission/philosophy behind the church starting initiative, and now I'm a big fan.

CBF is different from *some* organizations with church starting programs in the sense that CBF itself does not start churches or pay the salaries of church starters. Rather, CBF serves as a support system/resourcer for church starters - providing training, coaching, assisting with networking, etc.

Here are three recent articles on CBF church starting that might be of interest via CBFblog.com.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Mrs Haruo]

What is so "CHILLING" Ed? It seems to me that what is going on in the CBF is what "churches" should be. Responding to the needs of a community rather than imposing a particular worship style that may be odd, offensive, or just plain not what a particular group, or group to be needs, or is drawn to. I have had enough "chilling" experiences as a vistor or guest at quite a number of Baptist churches around the country, whether as a teen in a youth choir on tour finding tracts attacking members of my families varied belief systems, or men and women spreading horrid rumors behind my back about what "girls who joined the Navy were really like" while I attended worship services in uniform near where I was stationed in Pensacola Florida-- and this was at the invitation to return the next week for our service honoring the military! The Awana group my children were invited to join who's guilt tripping curriculm had my daughter crying because "Mommy, this is just more homework, this isn't fun at all" when she was scolded repeatedly for not having her verses memorized by leaders who had advertised "Fun and Games!" 'or reading the history of the city of San Jose CA for example, where some of the most violent, vitriolic racist and jingoistic acts were perfomed in a public lynching in the town square- spurred on by radio preachers sponsored by an early radio station sponsored by the biggest Baptist church in town.
Years later I walked past the doors of Japanese Baptist Church many a time and thought "Hm. That's different." and kept walking toward St. James Cathedral where I knew the music would be spectacular and the artwork and architecture of interest even if the homily wasn't that good, or -- or the food good at the soup kitchen. It took an invitation from a old long lost friend to get me into the door. I felt tall for the first time since I had visited Japan. The sanctuary had an open feeling where the windows in back of the pulpit reveal a lovely relaxing garden, and I didn't feel claustrophobic. The pastor was an older white guy with an Italian name that sounded Japanese with a diploma from M.I.T. on his wall. People of many races and mixes of races filled the sanctuary and the choir.

Different strokes for different folks, and that includes the fishing boat out on the Sea of Gallilee--- or Puget Sound.

[Tim Bonney]

Ed I get what you are saying because the CBF is a loosely organized fellowship and not a denomination, why are they church planting?

I honestly still think that the CBF is too loosely organized for the good of its own survival. Unless something is different in your kneck of the woods, I don't see local churches doing church plants other than large conservative mega churches. If CBF churches are going to plant churches there is going to have to be a huge culture shift.

Also the last stats I read about church planting suggest only 1 in 5 church starts make it. So were does a local individual church get the resources to risk planting a new church knowing there is only a 20% chance the church will make it?

What I wish would happen is that what used to be called the seven sisters of the mainline (make it eight if you want to add in the CBF even though it is a fellowship) would consult with each other and maybe even do some joint church starts together in areas where there would be an ecumenical mix that would match one church or another. Or if not joint church starts, trying not to compete with each other in locating new starts.

I also think is small town America more conversations need to be had about the value of federated, dually aligned, and facility sharing agreements. I've been in small towns were several churches are struggling to hang on to a building they can't afford. Why couldn't congregations share a building or like minded groups federate and share a pastor more often?

[Sandy]

[Tim Bonney]

[Sandy]

[Tim Bonney]

It is clear that you had a bad experience with the CBF or certain people in the CBF. It seems to have colored most of your views about the organization. I get that because the way I was treated in some of the Baptist churches I've worked in has certainly had an effect on how I feel about Baptist polity etc.

But I had a very different experience with CBF leadership than you did. I grew up also in a very active CBF congregation which had many leaders. The first moderator (I think that is the title), Dr. John Hewett, was my pastor. But I found nothing but affirmation from people I knew in the CBF. I'm sorry you had a different experience.