W.A. Criswell and the Kennedy Assassination

[Sandy]

[ET]

It means, in this context, that you ignore the FACT that Oswald was a member of the political left, a Communist. I fail to see how that fact of history means I am resorting to name calling.

Then what do you do? I make a statement about how the early guys viewed Congress as the primary body of political leadership in this country and the President was really of lesser importance and left to deal with foreign affairs while Congress handled domestic duties. You spin that fact of history into "Extremist Right Wing Southerner's Interpretation of the Constitution".

I could provide you a number of quotes from dudes with last names of Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison and others to support my position, but it wouldn't do any good. You'd just ignore them and move on to editing the next editions of Pravda.

[Haruo]

[William Thornton]

No, referencing Pravda isn't the same as calling one a commie. ET can speak for himself but I take the ref. to indicate parroting a party line. Sandy is faithful in doing that and tossing "extremist right winger" indiscriminately as well.

This one's a tie.

ET is right on target on the assassination. One of the great media narratives created ex nihilo is the ' mean right wing Dallas killed Kennedy' one. That Oswald, a communist, Moscow, castrophile did it is irrelevant to bothe media and Fox. Go figure.

[Sandy]

I took it as name calling, and given that Pravda was a Soviet Communist publication, a backhanded attempt to call me a Communist. The equivalent would have been to say something to ET about Josef Goebbels being proud, or using the term Nazi. "Extremist right wing conservative" is a legitimate description of a particular political position, similar to the views that ET shares. I could just as easily have said "Tea Partier" but that is less definitive.

The Kennedy Assassination is one of the most substantial pieces of evidence demonstrating that being part of the political left in the US bears no resemblance to, and has little in common with, Marxist political philosophy, or Soviet-style Communism. Kennedy's brand of Democratic Party politics was the greatest threat to the spread of Communism at the time and he backed up his position with military action, which is probably what put the wheels in motion that led to his assassination.

From a philosophical perspective, Communism has no equivalent in partisan American politics. There are plenty of historians and political scientists who do a great job of pointing out the basic philosophical differences. So when right wingers start using it in application to their opponents on the left, I take that as a sign that they have no foundation or factual basis for their argument, and are admitting defeat.

[William Thornton]

[ET]

[Stephen Fox]

For the record I think Oswald was the Lone gunmen in distinction to several Allliance of Baptists folks I have had intense conversations with about this matter for the last couple weeks.

My challenge to William and Sandy is to read Davis and Minutaglio's recent book Dallas 1963. It rightfully scorches WA Criswell.

Click on the link I provided above to the stout conversation on www.drshow.org last Thursday.

Criswell was a demagogue to match George Wallace in the 60s, no way to make it pretty.

Thornton, have you seen 12 Yrs a Slave yet? No excuses and then read Walter Johnson's River of Dark Dreams.

[Stephen Fox]

Caner and the trustees of his new school continue the demagoguery of Criswell's 56 SC Legislature sermon and Criswell's Nov 24 63 sermon

http://abpnews.com/ministry/people/item ... qIixmznaM8

[Stephen Fox]

http://www.npr.org/2013/12/18/255185942 ... t=1&f=1013

Couple weeks ago Robert Parham did a brief expose at ed.com about the SBC takeover crowd affinity for the apartheid government of South Africa. This thread has links to Criswell's hardwiring to racists, Jesse Helms. Adrian Rogers man in the shadows was Ed McAteer, not exactly a friend of Martin Luther King, Jr nor Nelson Mandela.

Likewise it seems Jerry Vines flourished best in the Birch Society and Daugthers of the Confederacy vicinity with his pastorates at West Rome, Georgia and Jacksonville, Florida. Listen online to the link above.

[Stephen Fox]

Interesting report on the Pope and Mussolini by a Brown Proff Monday on NPR Fresh Air. Easy google. Criswell was wrong about almost everything and an insult to the Baptist tradition in the 20th Century, but given his reservations about President Kennedy were only 30 years after Pope Pius working with Mussolini to abort church state separation in Italy, lot of cause for concern; not so much as Criswell expressed himself about JFK, but Catholic tradition in general. In some ways the Anti abortion Catholics in America are a bastard child of the Pius collusion with Il Duce but that may be a stretch.

[Stephen Fox]

[William Thornton]

I still say that Oswald the Marxist killed JFK not cries well and certainly not some artificially constructed city of hate.

Toss this criswell/Kennedy bs in with the JFK assassination conspiracies, 911 truthers, and other nonsense.

[Sandy]

[Stephen Fox]

apparently, have read this book. Minutaglio and Stevens do not put Criswell in a conspiracy; but in the vein of Dallas loaded the gun and Oswald pulled the trigger. This book as I have said throughout this thread deserves resding. It is distinct from a Birther, Truther mentality. Criswell was a punk, a demagogue, and cannot be dismissed simply as a product of his times no more than history dismisses the Lutherans who were complicit with Hitler, the ones Bonhoeffer resisted.

In tandem with the 100 pages Chandler Davidson devotes to Criswell in Race and Class in Texas Politics the godfathter of fundamentalism in the Southern Baptist Convention doesn't come across very well.

This book deserves to be read by Thornton and Saunders as well as Adrian Rogers son and www.ginnybrant.com and staff at FBC Spartanburg South Carolina.

[Stephen Fox]

Dallas FBC not much better with Jeffress, but the city as a whole has made great leap forward with the likes of Sam Hodges, Brent McDougal and George Mason's voice in town. And on this day July 12 proud of George W Bush who has adopted the city

http://foxofbama.blogspot.com/2016/07/n ... atter.html