CBF seminary student, female, speaks plainly

[William Thornton]

What the column is, Ed, is an honest expression of a young CBFers frustration. I give credit to Bob Allen credit for the wide range of viewpoints he offer on ABP.

And I'm not sure what can be done. It seems to me that there has to be some acceleration of bwim, specifically senior pastors, or there is a risk that the women will just plan a path for service in another denomination.

[Dave Roberts]

[Sandy]

Here's a logistical question. I believe somewhere in this thread, mention was made of the fact that there are about 2,000 students in the various partner seminaries and divinity schools that are CBF partners, and about 40% of them are women. Several of the schools also partner with the Alliance of Baptists. If CBF's website is an accurate representation, there are right around 900 churches that channel some money in some way through the fellowship to its partner agencies and institutions, and another 125 or so in the Alliance, though there is a lot of overlap there as well. If you're expecting a church position in either CBF or the Alliance after graduation, or even a missionary position, it would seem the availability within either of those groups would involve a long wait, regardless of gender. Going to other denominations appears to be an option for some, though most denominations have their own theological schools and seminaries. It seems the field is pretty crowded, and that would tend to suppress enrollment at some point.

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

[Dave Roberts]

As far as I know, the SBC's Annual Church Profile (previously Associational Letter) does not ask the age of pastors, only the longevity. I can't speak to other areas, but I know that the age of pastors in my immediate area is high. One who is 85 just announced his retirement after almost 60 years in the same congregation. I know several in their 50's and 60's and a couple of active pastors still in their 70's. My guess is the Baptist clergy shortage is just over the horizon, so there may be a number of openings in all branches of the Baptist family.

[Tim Bonney]

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: It looks like Jack Lotty who singed on here in March of 2010, may finally give it up shortly after the first of the year. He said when he signed on to BL.C "Occupation: Retired but pastoring an Urban Neighborhood church" that was an interim, but he is still there. At 88 he has become convinced that his 93 year old wife needs him at home more. They are both officially members of our church where she usually attends when physically able, unless Jack's church is having a special event. We are looking forward to having him with us on a regular basis. As it is he attends our monthly celebration day "pitch in" after the forth Sunday service. At one point in his career he was an ABC Field Minister splitting his time between New York City and all of Puerto Rico. At the Associational ministers meeting he was one of the first not to carry a leather Bible but to use an app on his Iphone. He also has a tablet that he carries if he is doing the devotional.

BTW. they seemed to have a good female candidate a few years ago but shortly after a walk around that "Urban Neighborhood" she gracefully withdrew as a contender.

[Cathy]

Our regional (ABC) office never forwarded a referral for a woman and pretty much gave up on helping our church find a pastor. The church has women fill in fairly regularly and is generally supportive of women in ministry. Too bad we we are so far away from McAfee.

[Haruo]

What region? Maybe you should join Evergreen.

[Dave Roberts]

Placements for seminary students in Baptist life are not guaranteed. There are both men and women at all theological schools who struggle for one to two years to find a permanent placement. When I completed my M.Div. in 1972, it was estimated that there were approximately 1,000 graduates of SBC seminaries who were not placed within one year of graduation. I don't know the figures at present, but anecdotally, I can relate stories of some who graduated with my son from BTSR, both men and women, who are still in part-time church positions or doing secular work while still looking for an opportunity. We will lose some to other denominations, but this is a problem in Baptist life with a long-standing history that relates to our polity. There are no guarantees for men any more than there are guarantees for women. I suspect, though enrollments at SBC seminaries are only as large as they once were because of undergraduate programs, there are still a number of SBC graduates as well who are not placed. That's a little secret that all seminaries seem to keep--there are no guarantees of a job when you finish a degree.

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Tim Bonney]

Ed, I agree that both men and women in the ABC who are clergy are all over the theological spectrum. But many Baptists view women in ministry as a "liberal thing." So they make assumptions, quite unfairly, about the candidate based on their gender.

You are of course right that ABPS profiles do not include theological orientation. But region staff often do know candidates and their theological orientations. If the church is say a known liberal church I'd hope they'd not waste the search committee's time giving them far right conservative profiles when they happen to know that about the individual.

Judgements are often made based on what seminary the pastor attended. If you attended Union or the Divinity School in Rochester you are assumed to be more liberal than if you attended NBTS. That isn't totally accurate. But those judgements are made. The schools have reputations which rub off on their students. There were times search committees mistook me for a conservative because I attended an SBC seminary. I always had to explain my background.

If I were searching for an Associate, when I was a Baptist, and I got a profile from someone who graduated from Luther Rice or Liberty University you better believe I'd be checking them out to make sure I wasn't going to be interviewing a fundamentalist.

Part of what I was hoping to find out from Cathy is how she knows her region didn't send women's profiles to the search committee.

[Dave Roberts]

Part of the idea of having a position upon graduation comes from the churches back home who encourage young people to go to seminary so "you will be qualified for better churches." I've heard that from students, and I've heard it from pastors.

[Tim Bonney]

[William Thornton]

[Tim Bonney]

[William Thornton]

Anecdotal. It just seems like I see more pastors of decent sized churches w/out seminary degrees.

[Tim Bonney]

[Cathy]

Timothy, I had previously related that a man who came from a very conservative/fundamentalist background was called. He turned the church down.

The church is a mix of liberal and conservative members and attendees but on both sides of that spectrum women in ministry are encouraged and women regularly fill in. I would say that the church has been clear and vocal in approving of women in ministry. It is mentioned fairly regularly in the church.

The previous moderator of the church and I guess head of the search committee told me that no women were recommended by the regional office. I am not a member of the church. I send my tithe and offering to this church via scheduled bank on line check (so faithfully) and attend regularly but haven't really felt that I was sure this would be my local church home indefinitely. I'm hopelessly in alien territory with no CBF church in the state.

All of the older local mainline churches have suffered membership losses (young people) from a large start up church that has opened multiple satellites in Northwest Montana. It seems the area has had multiple rounds of start up churches that wax and wane. There still seem to be a few reasonable size churches in the ERLC, Missouri Synod, Episcopal, and Presbyterian. And of course Catholic.

[Tim Bonney]

Thanks Cathy. That fills a lot of blanks. I'm sorry to hear that women's profiles were not recommended! It doesn't help women to move to an equal role in the church if the committees don't even see women's names.

[Haruo]

[Sandy]