2013 SBC Annual Meeting

[Dave Roberts]

Tim, I join in your resentment of the characterization of public education as the godless failing ground of secular culture. My wife spent several years as the Title I Parent Involvement Coordinator for a school system, and some of the finest Christians I have known were working in that system. I have also served as co-chair of an 18-month planning process for a school system in one VA county involving the work of more than 100 community people. After moving here, I served on and later chaired the Gifted Education Task Force in the public schools. I also served one church that had 28 teachers in it. My wife now works in the community college system where students often struggle to make it.

Sandy, your school seems the exception in that students can actually fail. The private school systems that I have dealt with operate on the mentality that the parents pay for their kids to pass. There was a great outcry a few years ago over a student who did not get to graduate with his class. Parents were up in arms because they were paying $4,000 plus a year for their children to graduate. After that incident, the headmistress retired before the fall term started because she did not have parental support.

The greatest problem I see for public schools comes from the Republican effort in VA (and many other states) to gut public education in favor or a voucher system. There are good private schools in some areas, particularly urban ones, but much of the country has few good alternatives to the public schools. I believe it is a part of my Christian civic duty to support public education. I'm sorry the SBC has bought the Republican voucher program and is so anti public education.

[Sandy]

There are good people, and good Christians, in the public education system. And there are schools under the banner of "Christian" that reflect a sectarian perspective. But the idea that Christian schools are full of kids who are just getting VBS all day long and that the primary criteria in the curriculum is creationism rather than evolution is completely off base and false. The school organization with which our school is affiliated is ACSI, the largest such organization in the country with 24,000 member schools, and schools affiliated with ACSI cannot be, by the guidelines of their affiliation, "segregationist," they must have a fully developed and well rounded curriculum that meets or exceeds the standards of the public school system in their state, and they must adhere to a distinctively Christian educational philosophy. The kinds of Christian schools you guys are describing are few and far between.

The philosophical differences between Christian education and the public school system in America are vast and clearly distinguished. American public education is both secular and humanist in its basic educational philosophy, and that, by its very definition, denies the existence of a supreme being, much less a God who provided humans with a savior. The curriculum objectives are designed around that premise. The early influences on what is today's public educational philosophy were John Dewey and Horace Mann, not completely or openly atheist, but certainly heavily influenced by an atheist perspective. Since 2005, a result of the Bush Administration's "No Child Left Behind" initiative, the US Department of Education has pushed a set of educational standards known as "Common Core." This comes from UNESCO, the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization, a group that is dedicated to neutralizing and eliminating what they consider negative cultural influences, and which pushes for one-world government. In spite of claims to the contrary, an end-run is being made around local school board control of curriculum. Common Core standards are enforced by "the test," the state based objective exams that students are required to pass in order to graduate from high school in most states.

I'm realizing that this discussion probably needs to be moved to another thread, so that it doesn't complicate the SBC Bashing that will happen here.

[William Thornton]

Sandy, what does your school teach in regard to evolution/creationism, old/young earth?

[Sandy]

[Bruce Gourley]

[Tim Bonney]

[TrudyU]

Sandy writes "I wouldn't bet that a kid from a public school could sit down and write a journal entry explaining his view of evolution, evidenced by the test scores public schools are turning out these days. And I doubt that the public schools teach that there are gaps in the theory of evolution, that many scientific discoveries have completely changed it in many ways, and that a good deal of it still lacks scientific evidence."

Ed: Again a lot of verbiage and speculation with unsupported claims. Not very persuasive. As I have said before there are some good Christian schools, some poor christian schools and some that are so-so. Trudy substituted in all three when we where in Cincinnati. There are Very good Public schools, very poor ones and some that are so-so. Unfortunately most in the NY Capital area while excelling in academics, lack in moral education. BTW the two lesser Christian schools in Cinci taught about morality but it did not come across in the kids behavior, But at least at school the best of the three had well behaved courteous students.

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

As Sandy said, this should be another thread. But I personally would be more comfortable with a Christian School that is tied to a denomination because at least then I could look up what they believe and intend to teach. But I feel the same way about independent schools that I do about non-denominational churches. They are a mixed bag and you may not know what they actually believe until you are well into their system.

[Sandy]

[Haruo]

[Stephen Fox]

William and Sandy: Have either of you read Giberson and Stephens The Anointed. If not why not?

And William Rachel Held Evans will be the keynote speaker and breakout personality at the CBF fall gathering in Seneca S.C. this October. Hope to see you there as she will bring a boatload of thinking for you on everything from inerrancy to evolution, all in the backyard of Senator Lindsey Graham's hometown, major railroad intersection of the first half of the 20th Century.

[TrudyU]

[Sandy]

[ET]

[Haruo]

[TrudyU]

Ed Pettibone on my wife's computer:

So ET does your support for vouchers extend to families who profess and practice forms of religion other other than Christianity, Such as Judaism, Islam and Wicca or whatever?

[Sandy]

[TrudyU]

Ed: To Sandy; There are undoubtedly poor public school, I worked in one, charged with "keeping order". There are also some fine public schools. And My kids attended some of the best. Largely because whenever our kids where in school and I was offered a job promotion, my acceptance of said job depended in large part on the studied reputation of the schools beyond the athletic department. My parents had done the same for me. And yes I know that not everyone has that luxury. But in all honesty my experience has led me to believe that most parents pay little attention to what is going on in the schools their kids attend.

And I do disagree with your claim that "The only way you can conclude that the curriculum and standards of the public education system are not 'anti-Christian' is either not being aware of what is in the curriculum, or to not have much in the way of Christian belief and conviction yourself. The lack of bible classes and prayer is not in and of itself anti christian. in some cases it may be anti religion. But I am satisfied with schools leaving religious instruction to parents and their chosen church.

I will agree that in a large part Christian school education has come a long way in he past thirty years. But for those where that is true, others are still spoon feeding kids with Christian pablum.

[Tim Bonney]

[Dave Roberts]

[Sandy]

[Tim Bonney]

[Sandy]

And Timothy, I know plenty of strong Christians who teach in the public schools who don't even need a pen and a piece of paper to outline everything they encounter that is anti-Christian. There are hundreds of books on the subject. It's all documented. You can talk about a narrow view all you want to, you tend to have blinders on for a lot of things, and you don't want to see it.

[TrudyU]