SBC Calvinism New Statement

[William Thornton]

Sandy, check the map on this link:

You notice that NM is a top tier state by this ratio, AZ middle tier.

NM is actually stronger by that measurement than I would have thought. The deal was, as if anyone is surprised, some states got special treatment and some were ignored. So, you have an arrangement that puts dozens of NAMB funded positions in some low population states and zero in some high population states.

[Stephen Fox]

Sandy, add to your reading on NE SBC UMC Bishop Willimon's book The Bishop on his stay in Bama. He is trying to jump a shark similar to yours.

In regard BDW and TBonney's slant on these matters, the Pressler and Patterson SBC has too much in common with the tribalism Diarmaid McCulloch discusses few years post the Nicene Creed in his magisterial Christianity. And again Giberson and Stephens for me are spot on about tribalism in the parallel universe of Bryant Wright's brand of SBC, if Shorter is example of its inadequacies and I am convinced Wright for all his charisma as a latter day Daddy Ed Young can't avoid it forever.

[Gene Scarborough]

As we think of numbers and influence, I am thinking of Jesus' comparison of his true followers with leven. He pointed out how a small amount allows the entire loaf to rise.

Jesus was not leading a mega group with grand facilities and a steady location. He was an itenerate wanderer with 12 basic followers and others who came out of curiosity over a new rabbi with a different message.

When Christ and culture interact, too often culture turns the Sunday gatherings into a social hour not taking too seriously those not coming and feeling not welcome for lack of proper clothes and vehicles.

In a small SC town whre I pastored was a story of the owner of an auto dealership who was in the Baptist Church. He was experiencing a decline in business and called everyone in on Monday. He asked for a show of hands of how many were in church Sunday. He then said he expected everybody to be in some church the next Sunday and everyone to join somewhere within the month.

It was good for business!!!

[Tim Bonney]

[David Flick]

[William Thornton]

Timothy, I'm going to email NAMB and tell them that we already have an ex-Baptist missionary to the Methodists in Iowa.

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

Oh, I just noticed this one. Puerto Rico is listed as a priority (in red) yet it has a 52% attendance figure tying with Georgia and Tennessee. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/rel_c ... attendance The attendance just isn't Southern Baptist. So it has to be a priority.

[Gene Scarborough]

I suspect that if SBC churches stopped fussing and fighting so much, the attendance would grow right where they are!

I am in a rather strange part of NC where the Church of Christ is as plenteous as Baptists are elsewhere. The reason is that they have a school at Elizabeth City and this is where a lot of graduates are available to pastor. The closest Baptist churches of our kind are in Washington (16 miles) and Belhaven (18 miles). I had someone comment to me the we should start one in Bath.

Now here is the reality: It is a small town. It has the oldest Episcopal church in the state / large Church of Christ (pastored by a SEBTS grad) / UMC / new charismatic non-denominational / another non-denominational charismatic. That seems to be enough churches with enough variety to meet needs here.

What is the point in starting another church which has Baptist on its sign?

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed; Gene when you write "The closest Baptist churches of our kind are in Washington (16 miles) and Belhaven (18 miles)."

It seems to imply that there are Baptist of another kind in the town of Bath, if so what kind are they and what are Baptist of your kind?

[Tim Bonney]

[Gene Scarborough]

Ed---I am speaking of SBC/CBF educated clergy regular type Baptists. The only other Baptists down this way are a few Primative Baptist churches. I have a comfort zone and want to be edified when I go to church. I failed to mention the FBC of New Bern which is on TV with their formal service each Sunday. That is my worship each week.

Tim---I think you are describing the "glorified social club" type of church environment. When people start focusing so much on welcoming "their kind of people" it precludes church growth pretty fast. People quickly note whether their participation is really appreciated or not. I have pastored such churches and it is almot impossible to see church growth with that kind of attitude = but we have always done it that way.

My first pastorate with 2 small children was so frustrating to my wife. We had a great youth group, but the nursery was not even heated and she was "expected" to be there Sunday nights. My poor wife just sat alone with our children who would rather be at their home. You could tell there would be trouble is we bucked the system and said, "When other young families come, we will too."

[Tim Bonney]

[Gene Scarborough]

Our contemporary ancestors, indeed LIVE!!!!

[Sandy]

[johnfariss]

Tim,

That strategy is not new with the SBC or what is now NAMB. My best friend from seminary took a position as a church planter with them, I think when it was still the Home Mission Board. Since he was from Maryland and his wife from Pennsylvania, they sent him to some little town in western Pennsylvania where he was told, "there is no evangelical witness." He got there and found not only a Catholic church but plenty of ABC, Methodist, Presbyterian, Brethren, and various other churchs, maybe some Menonites too. The population was heavily churched--just not churched with SBC churches, so they considered it to have "no evangelical witness." After a few months of butting his head against various walls, he resigned; and since he had been "unsuccessful" at starting a Southern Baptist church there, had he not resigned, he thinks they would have terminated him. After all, it's all about numbers--isn't it?

John

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: John some of our folk in the Baptist Fellowship of the Northeast have had similar experience. And of course BFNE includes Pennsylvania and NY in addition to the New England states that is why the NE stands for Northeast rather than New England.

[Gene Scarborough]

John & Ed---

You are reflecting exactly what I saw as I participated in the 80's in the Partnership Evangelism trip to Binghamton, NY.

The area was hardly what I would call "unchurched." Plus, we were viewed as a cult rather than a regular religious group!

[Tim Bonney]

[William Thornton]

I'm thinking some of you guys need to start a new topic. It might receive more attention.