Why young people are leaving the church

[Mrs Haruo]

I thought "OH Nooooo!" when this movement started 33 years ago, I haven't been proven wrong. Politics belongs out in the parking lot, out on the picnic tables after church maybe, but NOT FROM THE PULPIT!!! So many churches have become so politicized and are hiding behind a tax-exempt status. Something is wrong with that picture in my opinion. http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... ed/258204/

[Timothy Bonney]

I thought "OH Nooooo!" when this movement started 33 years ago, I haven't been proven wrong. Politics belongs out in the parking lot, out on the picnic tables after church maybe, but NOT FROM THE PULPIT!!! So many churches have become so politicized and are hiding behind a tax-exempt status. Something is wrong with that picture in my opinion. http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... ed/258204/

It is a good article and, IMHO, does point to an important factor in people's disenchantment with the church.

[Dave Roberts]

It is a good article. I believe that Merritt has pointed out one of a number of issues. Politicizing the church largely turns me off, too. In a larger sense, the issues for the church encompass many more things. I have never forgotten a conversation with a twenty-something about a church I was serving of which she was a younger member. She said, "This is a church of old people run by old people for old people." She was exactly right. We do not invite our brightest young people into leadership to contribute to the idea pool. We want them to be older and more seasoned so they will not provide radical ideas.

[Timothy Bonney]

I agree that politics is just one factor. But I believe it is a major turn off. Also other articles I've read have said that young people see the church as judgmental. The mainline churches being in a constant fight about issues around sexuality is pointed to as one of the factors causing young people to believe we are judgmental.

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: And why is Jonathan Merritt's article particularly important? What new insight has he brought forth?

I believe he starts with a misled premise when he equates Falwell's organization of the organization called "The Moral Majority" with the birth of the religious right. The religious right had been around for as long as white men had been on these shores and for much of that time they had co existed with the religious left. What Falwell did was to organize a significant number of them to give the impression of himself as their leader and spokesperson.

When Merritt the younger speaking of his 1999 visit with his dad to Liberty University as a prospective student says

The most memorable portion of the conversation, however, had nothing to do with Liberty. It was when my dad asked Dr. Falwell how his ministry was going. The reverend's jovial smile went somber and he leaned in closely:
'James, we've got the numbers. We've got the resources. We've got the leadership,' he said. 'I've spoken to conservative Christians in churches all across this country, and they know what is at stake. We've got to get serious about Jesus, and we need to call this nation back to its roots. It's time to stand for what is right.'
But then he added, 'We've got to get our folks to the polls next year, and we need to do a better job telling people what will happen if liberal Democrats remain in control of the White House. We must save this nation!"

My brow furrowed. Even a 17-year-old realizes when someone's answer doesn't match the question. Dad asked Dr. Falwell about his ministry, and Falwell answered with a strategy for acquiring political power. "

Ed Continued: It seems to me he demonstrates a lack of understanding of the Rev. Jerry Falwell and the Moral Majority. Falwell answered the Senior Merritt's with absolute candor. As I see it, by that time, Jerry saw the creation of an organization with political clout as his ministry in bringing about "The Kingdom of God on earth" = saving this nation. The old time Gospel Hour, Thomas Road BC and Liberty University where but mechanisms to that end. And Falwell astutely saw Merritt Sr & Jr as cogs in the machine.

[Matto]

It is not judgmental churches that lose young people, it is the lack of Truth that being preached, and sure conviction.

If the Bible teaches that sin Is wrong and that Hell is real, then the pastor teaches that sin is fine and Hell is just a story, then they see inconsistency and hypocrisy in the church.

A consistent message must be given.

True Christianity is a challenge, it is hard, but many churches water down the challenge such that there is no self sacrifice at all.

One seminarian complained that his standard of living went up when he went to one seminary. A TV in each room, luxury, and every convenience. He left that seminary to a more austere one.

Young people want to sacrifice their lives for a cause, and they will only do that if they hear truth, sure conviction, consistency.

The monasteries and orders that are the most severe are getting all the vocations, but the liberal permissive ones are all dying.

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: Matto , I am very much inclined to agree.

[Matto]

It's when preachers started preaching soft permissive poo, telling them sin is fine and not to feel guilty, that young people saw no difference in the church than to the secular world. The Churches became irrelevant to them, because the churches conformed to the world.
Why go to church on Sunday if the guy in the pulpit is giving you the same message the world gives. Might as well go to the monster trucks or the drag races instead.

The churches lost the point of contrast with the world and became irrelevant.

Keep telling kids feel good poo, you might as well be social worker, not a servant of Christ seeking to save souls from damnation.

Basically it is tolerance of sinful behavior but even worse still, affirming young people in sinful behavior. This is not tolerance this is complicity in peoples damnation.

[Timothy Bonney]

It's when preachers started preaching soft permissive poo, telling them sin is fine and not to feel guilty, that young people saw no difference in the church than to the secular world.

Matto, I don't know anyone that does this. Nor has anything I've read suggested that young people are leaving the church because the church is too permissive. Nor do I know anyone in the US who changed seminaries because there was a TV in their room. Technology isn't evil. It is all in how you use it. If you think technology is evil you better turn off your computer quick.

[Mrs Haruo]

Or you can do what I do-- cover the TV with an "interesting old bed spread" or an elegant looking scrap of velvet (this doesnt work as well with a flat screen, but you can make draperies I suppose) and a vase of flowers on top. By the time you take the flowers off and pull off the spread you will have decided whether you want to watch Mawstapiece Theatah or read a book or embroider little flowers over the holes in your undies or go for a much needed walk.

[Timothy Bonney]

Or you can do what I do-- cover the TV with an "interesting old bed spread" or an elegant looking scrap of velvet (this doesnt work as well with a flat screen, but you can make draperies I suppose) and a vase of flowers on top. By the time you take the flowers off and pull off the spread you will have decided whether you want to watch Mawstapiece Theatah or read a book or embroider little flowers over the holes in your undies or go for a much needed walk.

That makes the TV a bit harder to use.

[Ed Pettibone]

It's when preachers started preaching soft permissive poo, telling them sin is fine and not to feel guilty, that young people saw no difference in the church than to the secular world.

Matto, I don't know anyone that does this. Nor has anything I've read suggested that young people are leaving the church because the church is too permissive. Nor do I know anyone in the US who changed seminaries because there was a TV in their room. Technology isn't evil. It is all in how you use it. If you think technology is evil you better turn off your computer quick.

Ed: TIm I would guess that in Matto's frame of reference preachers who approve of abortions would be among those he says are "preaching soft permissive poo." And probably the same for those of you who affirm homosexuality.

Off the top of my head I can not site a source for evidence that "young people are leaving the church because the church is too permissive" but I have seen research that posits that idea. Same Idea as children really wanting parents to set limits.

And I have not seen Matto suggesting that Technology is evil. But BTW there is tons of evil stuff in cyber land
And for some, perhaps most TV is a rather unnecessary distraction. When I was in Seminary I did not have a TV in my room while single and when we got married we did not have one in our apartment. While Trudy was at the Seminary we inherited a TV when my mother died. During the time that we did not have a TV I did not miss it.
Now we have three and about all I ever watch is the news and America's got Tallent, the Indy 500 and USF (Univ of So. Fla.) sports and The Antique Road show. Trudy loves cartoons, that is why her first book (soon to be released )is a devotional for children.

[Timothy Bonney]

Ed I could dig for you. But I've read plenty of articles which conclude that young people are leaving church because the church is out of touch and judgmental particularly in areas of social justice and homosexuality. I've yet to run across an article that suggests that young adults want us to treat them like children and offer them parental discipline.

I have a history with Matto Ed. I'm willing to overlook that history as long as he doesn't go back to the kind of posts I saw him make over on "Thinking Baptists." But his previous MO was an ultra-conservative Catholic on the attack. You might guess that I'd disagree with many of his views. I'd guess you might as well if he expresses the same views here. But on the previous forum his MO included trying to convert us all. It didn't go well.

As to the evils of technology, I always get a laugh when people attack technology and the evils of it while using that very technology to get its message across. I agree with you Ed that there is a lot of horrible material on the internet. But there is also a lot of horrible material in books and material written pre-internet.

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed I could dig for you. But I've read plenty of articles which conclude that young people are leaving church because the church is out of touch and judgmental particularly in areas of social justice and homosexuality. I've yet to run across an article that suggests that young adults want us to treat them like children and offer them parental discipline.

I have a history with Matto Ed. I'm willing to overlook that history as long as he doesn't go back to the kind of posts I saw him make over on "Thinking Baptists." But his previous MO was an ultra-conservative Catholic on the attack. You might guess that I'd disagree with many of his views. I'd guess you might as well if he expresses the same views here. But on the previous forum his MO included trying to convert us all. It didn't go well.

As to the evils of technology, I always get a laugh when people attack technology and the evils of it while using that very technology to get its message across. I agree with you Ed that there is a lot of horrible material on the internet. But there is also a lot of horrible material in books and material written pre-internet.

Ed But as off yet Matto has not attacked technology. When he expresses ideas here that I do not buy into you can be sure I will let him know. And Tim I did not say that young adults want us to treat them like children. I am persuaded that many of the young adults who no longer attend church actually left a few years before they quit attending. Yep you read it right. And since neither of us are Moderators on these boards any longer I am just a happy with a conservative Catholic having his say as a rather liberal former baptist now Methodist. But I am not about to join the Church represented by either of you.

[Timothy Bonney]

Ed But as off yet Matto has not attacked technology. When he expresses ideas here that I do not buy into you can be sure I will let him know. And Tim I did not say that young adults want us to treat them like children. I am persuaded that many of the young adults who no longer attend church actually left a few years before they quit attending. Yep you read it right. And since neither of us are Moderators on these boards any longer I am just a happy with a conservative Catholic having his say as a rather liberal former baptist now Methodist. But I am not about to join the Church represented by either of you.

Well I'll have to see how Matto chooses to behave before I'll decide how I feel about his presence. Don't worry Ed I have no desire to make a Methodist out of you. And as Methodists go, I'm pretty middle of the road.

[KeithE]

5 year Barna Study give 6 reasons why young people are leaving the church.

Churches seem overprotective.
Teens’ and twentysomethings’ experience of Christianity is shallow.
Churches come across as antagonistic to science.
Young Christians’ church experiences related to sexuality are often simplistic, judgmental.
They wrestle with the exclusive nature of Christianity.
The church feels unfriendly to those who doubt.


And they yearn for more connectedness.

All of which indicate to me young people are pretty perceptive.

Perhaps this is one reason for the drop of membership percentage of US population the SBC has seen since the 1990 Takeover. Borrowing from Big Daddy’s post (so I don’t get accused of plagiarism ):


The CBF has not picked up the ball.

[Timothy Bonney]

Keith the 5 year Barna study makes for a very timely post. Thanks for adding data and facts to the discussion.

[Ed Pettibone]

Keith the 5 year Barna study makes for a very timely post. Thanks for adding data and facts to the discussion.

Some of you may recall that I am less than impressed with the Barna research group and I have admited to occasionally using their material in a positive manner when it suits my purpose.

But on this one, my skepticism is high as has so often been the case. this is because the Barna Group herein after Referred to simply as the BG reports seldom provide what I consider to be sufficient information on their methodology, and the lack of data to back up conclusions.

Lets take the first "reason" for an example Reason #1 – Churches seem overprotective. And what does that mean?
A few of the defining characteristics of today's teens and young adults are their unprecedented access to ideas and worldviews as well as their prodigious consumption of popular culture. In other words they are quite gullible As Christians, they express the desire for their faith in Christ to connect to the world they live in. So what is new However, much of their experience of Christianity feels stifling, fear-based and risk-averse. As indicated by what? One-quarter of 18- to 29-year-olds said “Christians demonize everything outside of the church” (23% indicated this “completely” or “mostly” describes their experience). That is not difficult for much of what is outside of the church And what of the other 2% of that "one-quarter" aka 25%? And what of the other 75% Other perceptions in this category include What category? “church ignoring the problems of the real world” (22%) and “my church is too concerned that movies, music, and video games are harmful” (18%). And against what backdrop do these young adults judge what it means for their church to be too concerned about these amusements?

Ed: The green comments above are mine, in case anyone had not figured that out. And where are t BG's instruments that elicited these responses.

IMSO, Professional clergy often go for this stuff be cause it allows them to share the blame for the defections.

[Timothy Bonney]

It looks to me like you aren't impressed because you don't like the results. Sorry Ed. The truth hurts. And if the church doesn't take those concerns seriously we are all into a long downhill slide.

[Ed Pettibone]

It looks to me like you aren't impressed because you don't like the results. Sorry Ed. The truth hurts. And if the church doesn't take those concerns seriously we are all into a long downhill slide.

I guess I was adding that last line as you where typing. Now would you care to deal with my objections to this report.

[Timothy Bonney]

IMSO, Professional clergy often go for this stuff be cause it allows them to share the blame for the defections.

It sure would be easier to respond if you used quotes rather than inserting your comments in colors that I can't see when I try to quote you. Be that as it may, I don't understand what you mean by the above comment.

Also I can't quite figure out what you are objecting to. Am I right that you seem to be protesting what the young people themselves appear to think? The point of the study is to find out what they think, not to argue with young people about what they think about the church.

You also only dealt with the first couple of issues. What about many Christian's anti-science stances? What about Christian views of sexuality? I see this two as big factors in how young people feel about church particularly when the latest news about religion seems to be about churches pushing votes against gay marriage or pushing school boards not to teach evolution etc.

[Dave Roberts]

To me, one of the greatest dangers to the church in its relationships with young people is giving pre-packaged answers without listening to the questions. I am grateful to a church that certainly had moral and religious standards, but that was open to let young people ask questions and challenge those viewpoints. The minister of education and youth in my teenage years was a master at creating relationships in which we could ask tough questions without being condemned. Churches must hear the questions young people have before giving packaged answers.

[Timothy Bonney]

I agree David. I also believe it is important to talk with young people about their spiritual needs rather than assuming we know based on what we needed when we were their age. I get a lot of that from middle and older adults who don't realize that what worked for youth in 1970, 1980, and 1990 may not work at all in 2012.

[Dave Roberts]

I agree David. I also believe it is important to talk with young people about their spiritual needs rather than assuming we know based on what we needed when we were their age. I get a lot of that from middle and older adults who don't realize that what worked for youth in 1970, 1980, and 1990 may not work at all in 2012.

I was growing up in the 1950's and 1960's, and my church already knew that.

[linda]

Totally agree that what drew the young folks in my day may not be what draws them in now.

The church I attend is growing in the number of young adults, teens, and children attending.

We don't do one blamed thing to appeal to them beyond a SS for grade schoolers. Hoping to get the youth Bible study restarted when school starts.

But here is what has us bumfuzzled:

The ones choosing us and coming are coming because we simply do church, not outreach to their age group. We got them because when they called and asked if we were targetting their demographic, we said no.

They are not looking for music geared to them, preaching geared to them, or activities geared to them. They instead are looking for strong doctrinal preaching, a strong faith, and one that makes a high level of demand on their lives.

Kids. Go figure.