Moderator: Dave Roberts
Mrs Haruo wrote:I thought "OH Nooooo!" when this movement started 33 years ago, I haven't been proven wrong. Politics belongs out in the parking lot, out on the picnic tables after church maybe, but NOT FROM THE PULPIT!!! So many churches have become so politicized and are hiding behind a tax-exempt status. Something is wrong with that picture in my opinion. http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... ed/258204/
The most memorable portion of the conversation, however, had nothing to do with Liberty. It was when my dad asked Dr. Falwell how his ministry was going. The reverend's jovial smile went somber and he leaned in closely:
'James, we've got the numbers. We've got the resources. We've got the leadership,' he said. 'I've spoken to conservative Christians in churches all across this country, and they know what is at stake. We've got to get serious about Jesus, and we need to call this nation back to its roots. It's time to stand for what is right.'
But then he added, 'We've got to get our folks to the polls next year, and we need to do a better job telling people what will happen if liberal Democrats remain in control of the White House. We must save this nation!"
My brow furrowed. Even a 17-year-old realizes when someone's answer doesn't match the question. Dad asked Dr. Falwell about his ministry, and Falwell answered with a strategy for acquiring political power. "
Matto wrote:It's when preachers started preaching soft permissive poo, telling them sin is fine and not to feel guilty, that young people saw no difference in the church than to the secular world.
Mrs Haruo wrote:Or you can do what I do-- cover the TV with an "interesting old bed spread" or an elegant looking scrap of velvet (this doesnt work as well with a flat screen, but you can make draperies I suppose) and a vase of flowers on top. By the time you take the flowers off and pull off the spread you will have decided whether you want to watch Mawstapiece Theatah or read a book or embroider little flowers over the holes in your undies or go for a much needed walk.
Tim Bonney wrote:Matto wrote:It's when preachers started preaching soft permissive poo, telling them sin is fine and not to feel guilty, that young people saw no difference in the church than to the secular world.
Matto, I don't know anyone that does this. Nor has anything I've read suggested that young people are leaving the church because the church is too permissive. Nor do I know anyone in the US who changed seminaries because there was a TV in their room. Technology isn't evil. It is all in how you use it. If you think technology is evil you better turn off your computer quick.
Tim Bonney wrote:Ed I could dig for you. But I've read plenty of articles which conclude that young people are leaving church because the church is out of touch and judgmental particularly in areas of social justice and homosexuality. I've yet to run across an article that suggests that young adults want us to treat them like children and offer them parental discipline.
I have a history with Matto Ed. I'm willing to overlook that history as long as he doesn't go back to the kind of posts I saw him make over on "Thinking Baptists." But his previous MO was an ultra-conservative Catholic on the attack. You might guess that I'd disagree with many of his views. I'd guess you might as well if he expresses the same views here. But on the previous forum his MO included trying to convert us all. It didn't go well.
As to the evils of technology, I always get a laugh when people attack technology and the evils of it while using that very technology to get its message across. I agree with you Ed that there is a lot of horrible material on the internet. But there is also a lot of horrible material in books and material written pre-internet.
Ed Pettibone wrote:Ed But as off yet Matto has not attacked technology. When he expresses ideas here that I do not buy into you can be sure I will let him know. And Tim I did not say that young adults want us to treat them like children. I am persuaded that many of the young adults who no longer attend church actually left a few years before they quit attending. Yep you read it right. And since neither of us are Moderators on these boards any longer I am just a happy with a conservative Catholic having his say as a rather liberal former baptist now Methodist. But I am not about to join the Church represented by either of you.
Tim Bonney wrote:Keith the 5 year Barna study makes for a very timely post. Thanks for adding data and facts to the discussion.
Tim Bonney wrote:It looks to me like you aren't impressed because you don't like the results. Sorry Ed. The truth hurts. And if the church doesn't take those concerns seriously we are all into a long downhill slide.
Ed Pettibone wrote:
IMSO, Professional clergy often go for this stuff be cause it allows them to share the blame for the defections.
Tim Bonney wrote:I agree David. I also believe it is important to talk with young people about their spiritual needs rather than assuming we know based on what we needed when we were their age. I get a lot of that from middle and older adults who don't realize that what worked for youth in 1970, 1980, and 1990 may not work at all in 2012.
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