J. R. Graves Lives Again...

[Lamar Wadsworth]

I still get SBC Life, the slick Executive Committee publication that replaced the old Baptist Program, even though I am no longer Southern Baptist and haven't been for a long time. Not sure why they still send it to me. Every issue confirms that I made the right decision in leaving the SBC fold, but the current issue with its doctrinal feature "The Church--Worshiping at the Lord's Table" takes the cake with essays on "Less Open," "Close," and "Closed" Communion. Makes me wonder what's coming down the pike next month, a defense of the thoroughly discredited "Trail of Blood" successionist view of Baptist history? We just thought the "Great Triumvirate" of J. R. Graves, J. M. Pendleton, and A. C. Dayton had died out! The old 19th century heresy of Landmarkism is alive and well.

[Haruo]

Pastors who think they are called of God to keep certain people from taking Communion?? Sounds fascinating. When you get done reading it, Lamar, I wouldn't mind at all if you'd send it to me.

[Lamar Wadsworth]

@Harou--PM your e-mail address, I'll scan it and send to you. I remember way too many Lord's Supper observances tacked onto the end of the service as an afterthought because it was the first Sunday of the quarter, with the preacher talking about who was NOT welcome at the table. On that last essay advocating for strict closed communion, I felt like I was reading Graves' An Old Landmark Re-set

[William Thornton]

SBCLife can be accessed online although there is a delay for the current issue.

The publication has been doing a fair amount of comparison stuff. I'm not sure why Lamar sees an issue with presenting several communion positions. In some areas it is typical for SBC churches to practice restrictive communion policies.

When I get the issue, I'll be sure to read the article and would like to continue this conversation.

[Sandy]

The article in SBC Life doesn't set down an "official" SBC position on communion, does it? I'll read it when it comes out on line, but if you're going to be grateful for leaving the SBC over the diversity of positions in the various churches on communion, you need to be grateful you didn't join in with any other Baptist denominational group, because I don't know of a single one that doesn't have churches which practice both open and closed communion. There are 44,000 churches in the SBC, and I would be surprised if there were more than 5% which practiced closed communion.

[William Thornton]

The article has two writers who favor closed communion, members of that particular local church and one who favors close communion, baptized believers only. There is no argument for open communion.

I suppose the definitions vary somewhat. My practice has always been close communion. You don't have to be a member of my church to participate but you do have to be a baptized believer. I also believe the ordinance to belong to the local church, not anyone, anywhere. One writer shares the story of a meeting of missionaries overseas where the mssy planning the opening service was to include the Lord's Supper in it. After some mssys declined to participate that part was dropped.

Lamar might wonder what is coming down the old SBC pike doctrinally but these communion positions are old news. When I lived in Memphis, some would call their preferred position "close, close" meaning closed as the articles describe it - members only. That particular practice was more prevalent in that area than here in GA.

What do my mod/lib friends practice?

[Haruo]

Generally open hereabouts. The emphasis is more on inviting and/or making it clear that Jesus invites participation than on encouraging folks to disqualify themselves let alone doing it for them. William, does "baptized believer" postulate immerson in this context?

[David Flick]

[William Thornton]

David, do you mean open communion in the sense that any believer can partake and that the ordinance may be given outside of local church authority?

Haruo, yes, I presume immersion since baptism is immersion. We don't have baptismal mode police in a service to check, though.

Back to Lamar's initial post here, I'd think that moderates of all Baptists would understand historical diversity in this practice. If a church chooses more restrictive communion practices, it is not an issue for which they should be condemned. One has to say that the NT is not explicit in its instructions on the matter.

[Ed Pettibone]

[johnfariss]

Interesting, Lamar & David, that you still get SBC Life. The church I serve and have been at 8+ years considers itself the be SBC even though we designate our cooperative funds to missions agencies only, and give an equal amount to the CBF--and the church I served before did the same thing--I don't remember when I received a copy of it. Actually, the last one I remember getting was probably in the mid- or late 1990s. That was after I wrote a letter to whoever was editor back then disagreeing with some article he wrote in it. Not only did the editor reply to me, but even Paige Patterson sent me one. Surprize, surprize, surprize (quoting my fellow Talladega Countian Jim Nabors/Gomer Pyle), they did not appreciate my disagreement.

Come to think of it, I haven't missed SBC Life either.

John Fariss

[Dave Roberts]

[Sandy]

[Gene Scarborough]

I think this discussion simply proves "Baptists love to find something to fight about!"

We have been watching Calvinism raise its head---for no good reason since it is pimarily a Presbytherian thing. We have had debate among churches over "open / closed" communion as if Jesus really cares who joins him around his table for the Memorial Meal. Last time I checked, Jesus was about inviting rather than excluding. That was the Disciples' approach!

I have always simply stated: "All who are in right relationship with God and one another are invited to attend." No one was given time to leave--and they could partake or not as their conscience provided direction.

In a typical church few know what they are really doing unless it is explained in detail and often. Your typical kid often sees the glasses like in a cowboy movie saloon! I know I gave it that thought when I was a kid and my daddy was the Pastor. I loved going downstairs in the kitchen as they cleaned up and really slug some Welch's glasses down and push back my coat to get to my gun for a quick draw

We started using both kosher Manishevitz wine and Welsh's grapejuice at my historic church. It was welcomed when the history disclosed a church family was "chosen" for their special wine-making skills to provide the wine of pre-prohibition services. Like good Baptists, we provided both kinds of juices and it was visible by color variance on the tray as well as smell. This was in NC where some of the ancient recipts for wine really do exist and are produced.

The only problem there were 2 of the deacons' kids gathering at the table after the service and slugging down the real stuff to a fault! At the least, we weren't lying anymore about who used alcohol or not

[Ed Pettibone]

[Lamar Wadsworth]

My practice has been open communion throughout my ministry. I usually say something to the effect of "All who love the Lord Jesus Christ, who look to him alone for the forgiveness of their sins, and desire to live a life pleasing to him are welcome at the Lord's table." I will never forget a Sunday morning service at Unity Baptist Church in Dalton GA when I was pastor there. We had observed communion, and after the service a young woman who attended but was not a member waited to speak to me. She said, "I don't know if I should have done what I did, but you did say, 'All who love the Lord Jesus Christ...'(she proceeded to quote my words back to me). I do love the Lord, he has forgiven my sins, and I do want my life to please him, so when the bread and grape juice were passed to me, I took it." I assured her that she had done the right thing. She replied, "I guess that means I need to be baptized." I told her, "I guess it does." I baptized her and her 11 year old daughter the next Sunday. (Not realizing that she didn't know how to do evangelism, she led her daughter to faith in Christ all by herself without my help.
I know it is the tradition of many Baptist churches including most in this area, but I can find nothing in scripture that makes baptism a prerequisite to the Lord's Supper. Indeed, as I learned by experience, the act of taking the bread and the cup can be one's first profession of faith in Christ. I do like to observe communion in conjunction with baptism. My favorite way to do it is on a creekbank dripping wet with baptismal water. When I served Hill City Baptist Church, a rural church in Gordon Co. GA, we often baptized in the creek, followed by communion on the creekbank, using the hood of Deacon Will D. Haley's Ford pickup as our communion table.
I can't bring myself to begin a Lord's Supper observance by talking about who is NOT welcome at the table. That would be like having guests in your home at mealtime and telling them that the meal that is prepared is only for the immediate family, but they are welcome to sit in the living room and watch you and yours gather around the dining table and enjoy your meal.
Two of the most meaningful Lord's Supper observances that I have been a part of:
One was at the kitchen table of a couple who have been friends of ours since seminary days. They had been forced out by a faction in the church after only ten months. We spent the day with them, helping them pack, basically grieving with them. At the end of the day, we embraced them and prayed with and for them. I asked Carol to get a piece of bread from the loaf on the kitchen table, and my wife Marilyn got the small bottle of grape juice we bought on the way from her purse. I told them that I believed in church as formal organization, but I also believe in church as a phenomenon that occurs whenever two or more gather in Jesus' name. Their kitchen table became the table of the Lord.
The other was when I was the supply preacher one Sunday at a church in Baltimore. I drafted a 7 year old girl named Emily who had been baptized the previous Sunday to assist
me at the communion table because I won't lead a communion service where only men are allowed to serve the bread and the cup. It was her first time to take communion, and she served the elements to the deacons--including her father and both grandfathers.

[William Thornton]

I don't recall ever being in an association where any church was singled out for observing any communion practice. Lamar's practice may not be mine but I don't fault him if his church approves or prefers his way.

The original post here was critical of the SBC publication featuring communion positions. That was merely recognizing historical differences, not shoehorning all SBC churches into any single approved practice.

[David Flick]

[David Flick]

[Gene Scarborough]

I think communing is simply an extension of friendship between believers and the symbols of the sacrifice which draws us together.

To turn it into an opportunity for fussing and fighting is a total misuse to the point of evil.

J.R. Graves was a person lusting after power and position. My father knew him and he had an earned PhD in Theology. For him to use his position to hurt and confuse average trusting Baptist church members is unacceptable for me. Best I can tell, he did far more harm than good in separating and angering people.

In that one outlook, I see more of Satan than Christ motivating him. It would not be the first wolf in sheep's clothing we have had to visit us---trying to feed his appetite for power.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Gene Scarborough]

[Tim Dahl]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Gene Scarborough]

Ed---and I gave you the perfect opportunity to pontificate!!!!