ABC-USA Questions

[Sandy]

Last Sunday, my wife and I visited a church in a very, very rural area of West Virginia. It was what I would call extremely conservative, bordering on Fundamentalist. This church had an attendance of about 100 people, with about 60 of those being adults in one Sunday School class. There was no worship service that morning, because it was a "half-time" church, sharing a pastor with another small, rural congregation and so they only had "preaching service" the second and fourth Sundays of the month. Is that a common occurrence?

Also, when I asked about their denominational affiliation, they stated they belonged to the West Virginia Baptist Convention based in Parkersburg. When I asked whether that was ABC-USA, I was told that the church wasn't any more, and they thought the convention wasn't, either. The website for the convention does show some connection to ABC-USA missions. Is it possible for a church to belong to a state convention, but not ABC-USA? And does the West Virginia convention still belong to ABC-USA? I've heard that a lot of the churches down there no longer belong to the national body, and I've heard that the whole state convention is no longer affiliated. So what's the scoop?

[Timothy Bonney]

Sandy, some time back I heard that some ABC Regions were working on a possible situation in which a church might be a member of the Region and not a member of the ABC. West Virginia is one of the most, if not most conservative ABC regions. It is so conservative that I had my ABPS profile marked that I would not accept a contact from that region for a church. I have previously commented that if I was going to go to ABC in WV I might as well have stayed in the SBC.

[Haruo]

The amazing thing to me is that there are so many little ABC churches (and/or, perhaps, recently ex-ABC) in WV. I would have thought they'd all have left for the GARBC back in the '20s.

[Timothy Bonney]

The amazing thing to me is that there are so many little ABC churches (and/or, perhaps, recently ex-ABC) in WV. I would have thought they'd all have left for the GARBC back in the '20s.

It is easy for such churches to just ignore the ABC.

[Dave Roberts]

Sounds like a number of small churches in the SBC as well. They have never sent a messenger to a state or national meeting, send a pittance to denominational causes, and largely ignore the denomination, perhaps getting some literature from them and perhaps not. Most are served by bivocational pastors, some of whom are great servants but just not denominational people. Often they do not participate in local associations either or at a very strong level.

[Sandy]

I thought it was interesting that they shared a pastor, and held "preaching service" twice a month. When we lived in a rural county in Southern Missouri, I know the Methodists did that. There were eight Methodist churches in the county, and four pastors, though the way they worked it out, each church had a worship service every week. And I know that some of the Primitive and Old Regular Baptists in West Virginia used to do that as well, though a lot of those churches have died out. Apparently this pastor's other church is too far away for him to make it from one to the other and do two preaching services on the same Sunday. I didn't know the ABC-USA had a pastor shortage.

As for the small churches and their distance from the denomination, I would guess that's a Baptist thing all around. Independence and autonomy are highly valued, connectional authority is not. It was the smaller churches, however, that the conservative resurgence pulled back into the convention to get the messengers they needed to replace the old guard.

[Ed Pettibone]

Sandy, some time back I heard that some ABC Regions were working on a possible situation in which a church might be a member of the Region and not a member of the ABC. West Virginia is one of the most, if not most conservative ABC regions. It is so conservative that I had my ABPS profile marked that I would not accept a contact from that region for a church. I have previously commented that if I was going to go to ABC in WV I might as well have stayed in the SBC.

Ed: And Tim upon what do you base you judgement of The West Virginia Region of ABC-USA ? In actuality with 425 churches it is still the largest region of ABC-USA. Indeed like every denomination include the the UMC. ABC-USA regions are made up of varied sizes of churches from small to large. mega churches are rare If you divide the Number of ABC churches 425 in into the number of members 82,083 in W.Va you get an average of 193. The truth is a dozen churches approaching 500 members would skew the median. But given the population , 2011 estimate 1,855,364, and Land area of W.VA 24,230 sq miles. The Vest Virginia Region of ABC- USA seems to be doing relatively well among ABC regions when it comes to population saturation. You may want to also keep in mind W.Va is 49th of 50 states in family income.
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Source of figures: WEST VIRGINIA BAPTIST CONVENTION

P.O. Box 1019
Parkersburg, WV 26102-1019
(304)422-6449
UPS: 1019 Juliana St, Parkersburg, WV 26101
Fax (304)485-0940
Web Site: http://www.wvbc.org

425 churches, 82,083 total members

Executive Minister: Dr. David L. Carrico - West Virginia Baptist Convention, P.O. Box 1019, Parkersburg, WV 26102-1019, (304)422-6449, Fax: (304)422-7016, UPS: 1019 Juliana St., Parkersburg, WV 26101, E-Mail: carrico@wvbc.org

Associate Executive Minister: Dr. Maxwell L Hill , 1101 Van Buren St, Clarksburg, WV 26301, (304) 626-3265, Fax (304)626-3265, E-mail: hill@wvbc.org

Associate Executive-Minister: Rev. John Simmons, West Virginia Baptist Convention, P.O.Box 1019, 1019 Juliana St, Parksburg, WV 26102 (304) 422-6449; Fax (304) 485-0940; E-mail: jsimmon@wvbc.org

Associate Executive-Minister Area Ministers for Eastern and Union Associations:

Rev. James Anderson Jr (SE), P.O. Box 98, Frankford, WV 24938, (304)497-4373, E-mail: anderson@wvbc.org
Dr. Michael S Derry (SW), 122 Roger Cir, Hurricane, WV 25526-1056, (304)562-9579, E-mail: derry@wvbc.org
Dr. Maxwell L Hill (Central), 1101 Van Buren St, Clarksburg, WV 26301, (304) 626-3265, Fax (304)626-3265,
E-mail: hill@wvbc.org
Dr. Victor E Shields (NE), 5049 Riverwood Cir, Fairmont, WV 26554-9196, (304)367-1666, Fax (304)367-1666,
E-mail: shields@wvbc.org
Dr. Michael C Stephens (NW), West Virginia Baptist Convention, PO Box 1019, Parkersburg, WV 26102-1019, (304) 422-6449, Fax (304)485-0940, UPS: 1019 Juliana St, Parkersburg, WV 26101, E-mail: stephens@wvbc.org


Minister of Mission Support: Rev. John Simmons, West Virginia Baptist Convention, P.O.Box 1019, 1019 Juliana St, Parksburg, WV 26102 (304) 422-6449; Fax (304) 435-0940; E-mail: jsimmons@wvbc.org

Associate, Mission Support: Mrs. Rose Marie Durig, 1001 Fourth Street, New Martinsville, WV 26155; (304)455-2644; E-mail: durig@wvbc.org

Director of Christian Education: Mrs. Lisa Simmons, P.O. Box 1019, Parkersburg, WV 26102-1019; (304)422-6449; E-mail: lsimmons@wvbc.org

Director of Baptist Campus Ministry: Rev. Jerry Losh, 1006 Holly Brook Drive, Culloden, WV 25510; (304)696-3053; E-mail: losh@wvbc.org

Director of Camping and Youth: Mr. Lee Boso, PO Box 548, Cowen, WV 26206; (304) 222-3522; E-mail: bosso@wvbc

Communications Contact: Rev. John Simmons, P.O. Box 1019, Parkersburg, WV 26102; (304)422-6449; E-mail: jsimmons@wvbc.org

Publications:
West Virginia Baptist; circulation: 8,500; published: bimonthly, excluding July; photos: yes; unsolicited copy: yes; target audience: WV Baptist family

Camps:
Baptist Camp at Cowen, Cowen, WV 26206; (304)226-3522; Steve McCartney, Site Manager
WV Baptist Conference Center, Route 2, Box 304, Ripley, WV 25271; (304)372-3675; Rob Ely, Director of Conference Center Ministries

[Timothy Bonney]

I thought it was interesting that they shared a pastor, and held "preaching service" twice a month. When we lived in a rural county in Southern Missouri, I know the Methodists did that.

I've not known of many Baptist churches following that model. But it is very common in the UMC. A pastors appointment is called a "charge." So when a pastor is in church of two local churches it is called a "two point charge." It isn't uncommon for there to even be three or more local churches in a charge in rural areas where the local churches are quite small. In some of those cases a licences lay preacher may preach at those churches on some Sundays and the ordained Elder (pastor) is scheduled in such a way that she/he is present on the Sundays that communion is served since in the UMC an ordained Elder must consecrate.

[Ed Pettibone]

[quote="Tim Bonney"]Sandy, some time back I heard that some ABC Regions were working on a possible situation in which a church might be a member of the Region and not a member of the ABC.

Ed: Tim, where did you hear that?

[Timothy Bonney]

Sandy, some time back I heard that some ABC Regions were working on a possible situation in which a church might be a member of the Region and not a member of the ABC.

Ed: Tim, where did you hear that?

I remember it being discussed as far back as when I was on the Region Board of ABC/IN-KY. I do not know if/how it was implemented by regions. And, as you can imagine, I don't keep up as much with what is going on in the ABC as I used to.

[Dave Roberts]

It was the smaller churches, however, that the conservative resurgence pulled back into the convention to get the messengers they needed to replace the old guard.

That might be true for Texas, but I looked at statistics for VA and NC where I have served, and the numbers changed very little outside a few prominent churches that rushed back for the takeover. Statistics at least in VA and NC, do not support your assertion. It was more likely that churches who could have 10 messengers starting sending all of them.

[Ed Pettibone]

It was the smaller churches, however, that the conservative resurgence pulled back into the convention to get the messengers they needed to replace the old guard.

That might be true for Texas, but I looked at statistics for VA and NC where I have served, and the numbers changed very little outside a few prominent churches that rushed back for the takeover. Statistics at least in VA and NC, do not support your assertion. It was more likely that churches who could have 10 messengers starting sending all of them.

Ed: Dave Could you help me understand what you are saying here. I am not understanding where the "few prominent" churches rushed to, or from where they rushed, for the take over. In 79 there where indeed more small SBC churches in Indiana and Ohio that suddenly sent messengers, and it continued to pick up through about 85.

[Sandy]

It was the smaller churches, however, that the conservative resurgence pulled back into the convention to get the messengers they needed to replace the old guard.

That might be true for Texas, but I looked at statistics for VA and NC where I have served, and the numbers changed very little outside a few prominent churches that rushed back for the takeover. Statistics at least in VA and NC, do not support your assertion. It was more likely that churches who could have 10 messengers starting sending all of them.

If you remember, the first convention where the resurgence gained a majority of the vote was in Houston in 1979. The registration declined from the previous year, from 22,000 in Atlanta to 16,000 in Houston, but the number of churches sending messengers nearly doubled. Between 1979 and the time the resurgence captured complete control of the boards and committees in 1989, messenger registration had topped the 40,000 mark twice, and the number of churches sending messengers grew to nearly 15,000. That's an average of three per church. But if you look at qualifications for sending messengers, it doesn't take much for a church to qualify for 10. You get one for being affiliated, and giving any amount of money, then you can add one for each 250 members, or one for each $250 contributed toward the work of the convention during the previous year. So a church that gives $3,000 to the Cooperative Program in a state convention that passes along 35% of its receipts to the SBC would have to come up with about $1,500 in Lotte and Annie gifts to qualify for 10 messengers. Lifeway says that 85% of SBC churches have 120 or fewer people in attendance on any given Sunday, so that's why I say the CR was dependent on the SBC's small churches.

[Sandy]

Sandy, some time back I heard that some ABC Regions were working on a possible situation in which a church might be a member of the Region and not a member of the ABC.

Ed: Tim, where did you hear that?

I remember it being discussed as far back as when I was on the Region Board of ABC/IN-KY. I do not know if/how it was implemented by regions. And, as you can imagine, I don't keep up as much with what is going on in the ABC as I used to.

Maybe this thread should be in the ABC-USA topic. In Texas, the contact I had with people involved with ABC-USA was extremely limited, I knew of just a couple of churches in the Houston area. Moving back here, we've had a lot more. We visited a church right after we moved here that didn't identify as Baptist, but turned out to be ABC-USA, and though it was small, and relatively new, more or less fit my "stereotypical" impression of American Baptists. A couple of the SBC churches we've visited, both at some distance from our home, turned out to be former ABC-USA congregations that changed affiliation, which I understand is how about half the churches in the Southwestern PA association came into the SBC. My wife and I were out enjoying the spring scenery, and were out driving around last weekend deep in rural West Virginia when we spotted this church, and decided to go back the next morning.

We had no idea what to expect. I had worked in rural West Virginia selling books back when I was in college, and a lot of the little Baptist churches in the countryside were Old Regular or Primitive. I was a little concerned about this one, because my wife didn't have a dress with her, and I know that if it were one of those, a woman wearing pants would be turned away at the door. However, as we walked up to the steps, a woman wearing slacks came out the front door. I was also a little concerned about not having a KJV Bible, but that problem was resolved when a gentleman handed me a quarterly with the lesson text printed in it. It was Union Gospel Press, KJV, but several references were made to other translations by the teacher, who turned out to be a prof at West Virginia Wesleyan College. It was the friendliest church I've been in for a long, long time, we were swamped by people after Sunday School. I guess they don't get a lot of visitors. I had to ask about their affiliation, and the gentleman who answered my questions wanted to make it clear that they did affiliate with the "convention office in Parkersburg". Maybe he didn't know that was American Baptist.

We have some close friends who recently joined an ABC-USA church in South Bend, Indiana that is most definitely ABC-USA and enthusiastic about it. They have a female pastor, a very traditionally decorated church sanctuary that goes along with a very traditional worship service, and denomination was part of much of what they did. It would be difficult to find much in common between these two churches, except that from what we hear, their pastor is pretty conservative theologically. So it seems ABC-USA may have a little more structure in some ways than Southern Baptists do, but they are a lot alike in their independence and autonomy.

[Timothy Bonney]

We have some close friends who recently joined an ABC-USA church in South Bend, Indiana that is most definitely ABC-USA and enthusiastic about it. They have a female pastor, a very traditionally decorated church sanctuary that goes along with a very traditional worship service, and denomination was part of much of what they did. It would be difficult to find much in common between these two churches, except that from what we hear, their pastor is pretty conservative theologically. So it seems ABC-USA may have a little more structure in some ways than Southern Baptists do, but they are a lot alike in their independence and autonomy.

The pastor in South Bend that you are speaking of is a friend of mine and my former Associate at FBC Des Moines. She is a good pastor and, as you have suggested, is fairly conservative theologically. Though I'm not sure she would be considered conservative by the SBC definition of conservative. She and her church are solidly committed to the ABC. And as a former ABCer in Indiana I can tell you that it is a good church.

I've often wondered why some Baptist churches that are totally disconnected or disagree entirely with the denomination they are in stay. It may be inertia as much as anything.

As to structure, in some ways I always thought that the ABC was both more structured and less structured than the SBC.
The ABC has a structured system for clergy recognition. But I always felt that in the SBC there was a lot more informal structure to pressure churches to tow the line either theologically or in giving to CP and the mission offerings. Yet with structure ABC churches generally have more freedom of theological differences than is tolerated in the SBC.

Now being in a connectional church all of Baptist work looks fairly unstructured from here.

[Dave Roberts]

It was the smaller churches, however, that the conservative resurgence pulled back into the convention to get the messengers they needed to replace the old guard.

That might be true for Texas, but I looked at statistics for VA and NC where I have served, and the numbers changed very little outside a few prominent churches that rushed back for the takeover. Statistics at least in VA and NC, do not support your assertion. It was more likely that churches who could have 10 messengers starting sending all of them.

If you remember, the first convention where the resurgence gained a majority of the vote was in Houston in 1979. The registration declined from the previous year, from 22,000 in Atlanta to 16,000 in Houston, but the number of churches sending messengers nearly doubled. Between 1979 and the time the resurgence captured complete control of the boards and committees in 1989, messenger registration had topped the 40,000 mark twice, and the number of churches sending messengers grew to nearly 15,000. That's an average of three per church. But if you look at qualifications for sending messengers, it doesn't take much for a church to qualify for 10. You get one for being affiliated, and giving any amount of money, then you can add one for each 250 members, or one for each $250 contributed toward the work of the convention during the previous year. So a church that gives $3,000 to the Cooperative Program in a state convention that passes along 35% of its receipts to the SBC would have to come up with about $1,500 in Lotte and Annie gifts to qualify for 10 messengers. Lifeway says that 85% of SBC churches have 120 or fewer people in attendance on any given Sunday, so that's why I say the CR was dependent on the SBC's small churches.

I was assuming when you spoke of small, you were referring to those smaller than the statistical median which is somewhere around 60 to 65.

For Ed's question, there were several churches that suddenly rushed back into the SBC in NC who had not sent anyone in years in protest. I'd have to look back to give you church names. Of course, shortly after the takeover, the SBc started receiving independent fundamentalist churches like Jerry Falwell's Thomas Road Baptist.

[Ed Pettibone]

Dave when you say "there were several churches that suddenly rushed back into the SBC in NC who had not sent anyone in years in protest" , where had these churches been? Also, I am not clear on the time frame you are talking about. It seems you are assuming that I know or should know something that I do not. This seems to be a part of the moderate problem wherein those who had been a part of the establishment, prior to Houston, made and continue to make make assumptions about what the rest of us knew or should have known at that time. For the most part we lay people where told hat is going on is just another pendulum swing. "Yea it is going to the right, but no worry it will swing back to the center."

I believe Cecil Sherman knew of what I am saying as I reread his introduction to his auto biography (By My Own Reckoning) especially on pages 3, 4 & 5.

Starting with his daughters argument "That in a few years there would be no one living who could fill in the pieces of the Story that where bedded in my memory, for I was a participant in events and conversations that ought not be lost." He started writing in 2006, the book was published in 2008 and Cecil died in 2010. All who have first hand knowledge of those days should be adding to those pages.

[Dave Roberts]

For years, the main groups going to the SBC from NC flew on Marse Grant's charter planes that usually left from Raleigh and Charlotte. Most of these were from churches ranging from 400 to about 1500 members, and while moderates may have predominated, there were folks on those charters from all stripes of the convention's spectrums. It was in the 1980's when M. O. Owens and others began organizing bus tours to the SBC and enlisting pastors from other churches. In NC, many of these were churches that had simply not been interested in the SBC and were certainly only miniscule supporters of the state convention and Cooperative Program. They gave designated funds to some state and SBC causes but had not given support to the main body of either convention in several years. Suddenly they were organizing efforts to get more votes to the SBC. While some smaller church pastors went, most of those boarding those bus tours from NC were from churches that had been sending no one but who suddenly sent their full complement to support Adrian Rogers. Small churches did not have the financial resources to send pastors and others. I've seen a number of their budgets from the 1970's and 1980's, and those budgets might have included $100 for the state convention but never supported trips for the SBC.

[Timothy Bonney]

My experience in the ABC is that the Biennial attendance was largely based on who could afford to attend. That is why I always felt like the General Board representative structure was better as it was more representative. The Biennial attendance was always tilted towards clergy who could get the time off and the larger churches (relatively speaking) who could afford to help pay for their pastors attendance.

The ABC recognized this imbalance so business at the Biennial was limited to a smaller set of decisions such as constitutional issues and national officer elections. Also the officers are limited in their powers. The ABC President doesn't have the broad appointive powers that the SBC President does.

It has always struck me as incongruous that the SBC, a congregationalist body that believes in local autonomy, would give a national officer such broad powers in nominating people to boards and agency, something very much not in keeping with autonomy. No one in the ABC/USA (or for that matter in the UMC) has those broad kids of powers.

[Sandy]

It has always struck me as incongruous that the SBC, a congregationalist body that believes in local autonomy, would give a national officer such broad powers in nominating people to boards and agency, something very much not in keeping with autonomy. No one in the ABC/USA (or for that matter in the UMC) has those broad kids of powers.

This was a direct product of the pre-1979 SBC leadership. The key is the SBC president, who appoints the initial committee which, in turn, makes the recommendations for the convention committees, through which trustee appointments are made. Though the committee seats and trustee seats are staggered terms, and there are limits on the time that one person can serve in the same position, the committee initially appointed by the president only serves to make nominations for the upcoming convention. From the late 1950's through to the conservative resurgence in 1979, the committee on nominations and the committee on committees shared a very small and elitist group of members and you can see a pattern of individuals rotating from one trustee board to another, with some individuals serving on both the committee on nominations and the committee on committees for alternating terms, then going to another convention committee or trustee board seat. The other issue with the power of the position that enhances it even more is that it is almost impossible to change nominations from the floor once they've been made. It requires a separate motion for each change, and a two thirds vote to over-rule the chair, since he makes the nominations directly. With that setup, all the conservatives had to do was to motivate enough churches to send enough messengers to the convention to consecutively elect a president for a decade, and with the "customary second term" given to trustees and committee members, they could gain a majority. Once the dust cleared, it was apparent that the "moderates" were pretty much completely represented in the convention during that period of time, while the conservatives, who made up the vast majority of the rest of the convention's churches, were fed up with the leadership, and frustrated by the stonewalling.

I tend to agree with Bill Leonard that the SBC as a denomination, was an institution wholly and completely steeped in Southern culture, to the point where the lines were blurred between its "Southern-ness," and its "Baptist-ness" (you know what I mean). Those things led to the creation of social classes based on denominational standards, such as size, location and "prominence" of church, carving out personal kingdoms in order to help get denominational jobs and prestigious church positions for seminary buddies and even family members, and putting together a system of officers with a power structure that enabled the elite to do it while still being able to brow-beat the have-nots into helping pay some of the bills. I don't think they ever dreamed, when this was developed, that conservatives would get hold of it and use it to oust them and keep them out.

[Dave Roberts]

Sandy, you may be right on the southern-ness of the SBC. It still has a lot of that in the deep south. In the BGAV, we have elected the first African-American conventiona president. Most denominational meetings are still "white as a ghost," but they have gotten just a bit darker.

The SBC has changed hands, and for several years it was so democratic that the "college of cardinals" had to take their winter Bible study cruise and come back to announce who was anointed this year for SBC president. It's still set in the classes of mega-church pastors. How many post 1979 presidents have come from any church with a Sunday attendance of less than 1,000?

[Sandy]

Sandy, you may be right on the southern-ness of the SBC. It still has a lot of that in the deep south. In the BGAV, we have elected the first African-American conventiona president. Most denominational meetings are still "white as a ghost," but they have gotten just a bit darker.

The SBC has changed hands, and for several years it was so democratic that the "college of cardinals" had to take their winter Bible study cruise and come back to announce who was anointed this year for SBC president. It's still set in the classes of mega-church pastors. How many post 1979 presidents have come from any church with a Sunday attendance of less than 1,000?

How many pre-1979 presidents did?

[Timothy Bonney]

The SBC has changed hands, and for several years it was so democratic that the "college of cardinals" had to take their winter Bible study cruise and come back to announce who was anointed this year for SBC president. It's still set in the classes of mega-church pastors. How many post 1979 presidents have come from any church with a Sunday attendance of less than 1,000?

You beat me to it Dave. Also if you dig far enough back you'll find a number of conservative SBC Presidents pre-takeover who also had the same power. It appears to me, if I'm remembering right, that this appointed presidential power long pre-existed the recent issues related to takeover of the denomination in 1979. I don't see how you, Sandy, can blame that structure on the moderate old guard. And I've not seen any sign of the new fundamentalist controlled SBC moving to a more democratic process.

[Dave Roberts]

Sandy, you may be right on the southern-ness of the SBC. It still has a lot of that in the deep south. In the BGAV, we have elected the first African-American conventiona president. Most denominational meetings are still "white as a ghost," but they have gotten just a bit darker.

The SBC has changed hands, and for several years it was so democratic that the "college of cardinals" had to take their winter Bible study cruise and come back to announce who was anointed this year for SBC president. It's still set in the classes of mega-church pastors. How many post 1979 presidents have come from any church with a Sunday attendance of less than 1,000?

How many pre-1979 presidents did?

Very, very few. In the size of churches, it was somewhat smaller, but that may be because the megachurches were just coming into being in the 1970's and beyond. There were few before that time.

[Gene Scarborough]

This is going back to business most of us know well. The 1979 "surprise" was a direct result of busing messengers in from churches all around Houston. I watched them pour off the buses, vote, leave throwing ballots all over the floor. At that point the appointive powers of the President went into full bore with exclusive appointments. Previously, most presidents took recommendations from State Conventions for cooperating pastors/laypeople in that state to serve in appointed Agency and Commission Trustee positions.

In NC, our battle took place in the late 80-early 90's and was concluded after 2 consecutive years of Conservative win. At the time SEBTS was giving students credit to attend and vote. This further played out their power politics. Now the NCBSC meeting has moved to a much smaller facility in Winston-Salem and all business is rubber-stamping Executive Committee decisions. It grows smaller in attendance each year.

As far as part-time churches are concerned, we have many. Even those able to hold services each Sunday use either a student pastor or bi-vocational one. The Association used to provide help to the many small churches in each, but they are under attack over female pastors and conservatism. Add the new "Financial Policy" of NC which returns gifts to any church with much hint of homosexual ministry, and you have a fuller picture of deterioration.

The CBF in NC is growing nicely as more churches see the picture more clearly. All churches are financially strapped with the economy having a great impact on NC.