Intelligient Design and American Dervish

[Stephen Fox]

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/flawed-argum ... -cms-19121

For me Marilynne Robinson offers the best resolution of this dilemma, but then again not many Baptists are reading her.
In the meantime this conversation earlier in the week was most fascinating. I commend it to all:

http://www.npr.org/2012/01/17/145334491 ... experience

I hope some of you will make time to listen online, or read the transcript

[KeithE]

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/flawed-arguments-against-the-bible-evolution-cms-19121

For me Marilynne Robinson offers the best resolution of this dilemma, but then again not many Baptists are reading her.
In the meantime this conversation earlier in the week was most fascinating. I commend it to all:

http://www.npr.org/2012/01/17/145334491 ... experience

I hope some of you will make time to listen online, or read the transcript

After a bit of googling, I assume that you are referring to Marilynne Robinson's Absence of Mind which according to Amazon argues that reductionist thinkers (most evolutionists like Dawkins) miss much when they ignore human consciousness. Sounds interesting.

As one who has read much of Intelligent Design literature and anti-ID literature several years ago, I find those advocating Intelligent Design as following the scientific method much more closely (mostly statistical computations) than those anti-ID people who just want to cast ID arguments aside because they are supposedly religiously motivated. Now evolutionary scientists (as opposed to anti-IDers) do attempt to use the scientific method but that immediately runs into difficulty due to the impossibility of repeatable experiments and I have not found an adequate statistical probablistic basis for evolution either.

It is interesting that warts in evolution theory (including the lack of explaining of consciousness) are common these days, necessitating major revisions of the Theory of Evolution.

Evolution- Extended Synthesis

[url=http://www.amazon.com/Altenberg-16-Exposé-Evolution-Industry/dp/1556439245/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1327121170&sr=1-1]Altenburg 16: An Expose of the Evolution Industry[/url]

These two books have multiple contributors that in toto are profoundly altering evolutionary theory to better match observations and explain consciousness/free will (and they do not use religious argumentation or sentimentalities in the slightest at least outwardly).

Also I highly recommend The Plausibility of Life which critiques both Evolutionary Theory and Intelligent Design.

No comment about American Dervish.

[Gene Scarborough]

One of my life-long dilemmas was the biblical account of creation and that of evolution. The solution comes when you realize both stories are a theory of how we got here. A theory attempts to explain things and those holding to it are obligated to test and inquire in the most factual way to prove or disprove the theory.

The resolution of my conflict came with good biblical study and learning something about the Hebrew word for time which can equally mean "indefinite period of time." The fact there are 2 stories of creation in the Bible is another problem for saying the Bible is right and Science is wrong.

When you put the 2 theories up side-by-side there are many similarities to the point I don't have to choose one or the other, but recognize what each is trying to say.

Science is more interested in the "What" of creation while the Bible is focusing on the "Why" of its story. Earth and Carbon 14 dating tell a story of long eons of time. Anyone trying to say "evolution has stopped" is thinking only short periods of time and afraid to admit the biblical "day" was hardly 24 hours. If you think creation was 4,000 years ago, let me take you to the Phosphate Mine across the river from me. They are digging through eons of sediments when the ocean used to go up to Fayetteville some 120 miles inland from Bath. You can see the old beach in what is called the Sandhills section of NC.

I see no real conflict nor reason to force anyone to make a choice. The publishers of Creationist textbooks are getting rich over the tempest in a teapot. Perhaps that's more descriptive than "dervish." Last time I checked, a "dervish" is a drunken and frantic dance akin to a fit.

[Dave Roberts]

One of my life-long dilemmas was the biblical account of creation and that of evolution. The solution comes when you realize both stories are a theory of how we got here. A theory attempts to explain things and those holding to it are obligated to test and inquire in the most factual way to prove or disprove the theory.

The resolution of my conflict came with good biblical study and learning something about the Hebrew word for time which can equally mean "indefinite period of time." The fact there are 2 stories of creation in the Bible is another problem for saying the Bible is right and Science is wrong.

When you put the 2 theories up side-by-side there are many similarities to the point I don't have to choose one or the other, but recognize what each is trying to say.

Science is more interested in the "What" of creation while the Bible is focusing on the "Why" of its story. Earth and Carbon 14 dating tell a story of long eons of time. Anyone trying to say "evolution has stopped" is thinking only short periods of time and afraid to admit the biblical "day" was hardly 24 hours. If you think creation was 4,000 years ago, let me take you to the Phosphate Mine across the river from me. They are digging through eons of sediments when the ocean used to go up to Fayetteville some 120 miles inland from Bath. You can see the old beach in what is called the Sandhills section of NC.

I see no real conflict nor reason to force anyone to make a choice. The publishers of Creationist textbooks are getting rich over the tempest in a teapot. Perhaps that's more descriptive than "dervish." Last time I checked, a "dervish" is a drunken and frantic dance akin to a fit.

I would heartily recommend reading Giberson and Collins book, "The Language of Science and Faith." It makes a good argument for using evolution to understand evolution and creation.

[Stephen Fox]

DAve: As a fan of Giberson you are just one book away from The Anointed. I hope you read it soon so we can spread the light with those in darkness here on this board.

KeithE; in All due respect, ID language is a distraction. Robinson trumps with virtue all your wasted reading on the matter, and helps clear the fog. To invoke ID language is to encourage the foggy into more obfuscation.

Join me and Dave in reading Giberson.

[KeithE]

DAve: As a fan of Giberson you are just one book away from The Anointed. I hope you read it soon so we can spread the light with those in darkness here on this board.

KeithE; in All due respect, ID language is a distraction. Robinson trumps with virtue all your wasted reading on the matter, and helps clear the fog. To invoke ID language is to encourage the foggy into more obfuscation.

Join me and Dave in reading Giberson.

I'm inPhoenix on business. I've read giberson's Saving Darwin? He gives mostly philosophy on a scientific subject. not my style. Collins is a little better. I'll probably read their joint book at some point.

Obama visited the building right next to where I was today.

[Haruo]

Last time I checked, a "dervish" is a drunken and frantic dance akin to a fit.

Not any dervishes I've ever seen. The whirling of dervishes is certainly the most impressive, solemn, stately Islamic spiritual activity I've ever witnessed. And they are emphatically not drunk when they dance, nor frantic, nor akin to those suffering from a fit. What source did you check, Gene?

[Gene Scarborough]

We just do things differently in the Sunny South and charismatic churches around here!

Sometimes snakes are added for further effect.

[Gene Scarborough]

Stephen---

Son---you have been taking lessons on .25-words from old Paige Patterson. It might be more helpful to stick with good Alabama English, if you please.

[Haruo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJIofU-0jC0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnunfciSr7k&feature=related - and check out the lyrics translation beneath the screen

[Stephen Fox]

I have submitted a letter to the Gadsden Times where a State rep is reported to be introducing legislation for release time from Public Schools to teach Creationism

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/18/opini ... .html?_r=1

[Stephen Fox]

Southside BC Creationism

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2012/02/ala ... incart_mce