The old, old story: Lottie Moon and Crawford Toy

[William Thornton]

Last year there was an interesting discussion here on Lottie Moon and Crawford Toy under the usual oddball topic title scheme that Fox uses: . If one filtered out the extraneous stuff there, it was clear that there was skepticism of the standard narrative on Moon/Toy, that Moon ditched Toy because of his liberalism.

There is a new book on Lottie Moon by Yale educated historian Regina D. Sullivan. Perhaps folks here would be interested in her conclusions based on primary research into Moon's life.

I have a blog article on the subject with relevant links () and invite folks who have an interest in the matter to read it and react.

Thanks.

[Stephen Fox]

I thank Dr. Thornton for his continued interest in this subject. I direct interested parties to the link at the end of the previous discussion currently locked in exchange between an Emory Grad and myself.
Direct it to the link profile of Author Sullivan from her hometown paper in Arkansas.

I will read and react at Thornton's blog soon.

As devoted as Thorton is to this matter, I continue to invite him to become as much the scholar of Marilynne Robinson as he is of Jonathan Edwards. My point continues to be, as I infer from several readings of Robinson who is as fascinated with John Calvin as Thornton is of Moon; that were Moon with us today, given her gifts and intellectual curiousity, with me Moon would be reading Robinson and Noll, and long time ago would have distanced herself from the Tea Party enthusiasms and misguided notions and abuse of Albert Mohler and Paige Patterson.

Maybe Emory will host Robinson soon, and Thornton will travel there to enlighted himself on Trajectories, or maybe I can meet him at Furman if Mohler and Jim Demint's Redeemer Prez PCA of Greenville, S.C. dont take us all down the drain.

[Stephen Fox]

[Stephen Fox]

Not my intent at all to hijack Dr. Thornton's topic--almost made a new thread out of this topic--but thought lot of common ground to wed Moon and Shehested together here; update in flesh and blood as it were on common theme of Dogma and experience

http://www.abpnews.com/content/view/6601/53/

[William Thornton]

Start a new topic on Sehested if you want, Stephen. Don't put it here.

[Dave Roberts]

I have read a good bit of material on this as well. My suspicion is that there are clues that make it probable that there were theological differences between the two. Whether that led to the end of the relationship seems uncertain. In affairs of the heart, we may never be able to flesh that out, and I'm still not certain what the relevance of a 19th century romance has to do with the CR.

[Tom Parker]

Dave:

I think for some they will attempt to tie everything back to the CR.

I often wonder how welcome Lottie would be in the SBC of 2011.

[William Thornton]

Guys, making a point about theological liberalism is not a stretch here. It is a valid point.

For how Lottie might view things today, a completely wasteful exercise, you might look at Bertha Smith who was in China, Shandong province, just half a decade after Lottie's death and who lived through most of the CR.

[Stephen Fox]

Not long ago Johnny Pierce had a story on a CBF woman in Texas who often prayed with Bertha in her prayer cuppalo at Bertha's home in Cowpens.
I do remember from my Dad vague memories of Bertha's recalcitrance at some Broad River Baptist Associational Meetings. To that end Thornton's take on Bertha may be right, she was no Stewart Newman.
I am still convinced and hope to find way to contact the author of the new book soon, there is no way Lottie were she with us today could find herself as an apologist for the fundamentalist takeover of the Southern Baptist Convention.

[Tom Parker]

William:

You said:"For how Lottie might view things today, a completely wasteful exercise, you might look at Bertha Smith who was in China, Shandong province, just half a decade after Lottie's death and who lived through most of the CR."

I consider it a completely wasteful exercise to try and tie Lottie Moone to the CR. I'll even say that it is just plain silly.

Just so you do not miss it. I do not see the CR through the lens that you do. It is not as all rosey as you try and paint it.

[Stephen Fox]

[William Thornton]

[David Flick]

[Tom Parker]

David Flick:

William said the following on one of his posts at his blog site:"Occasionally, I wonder if the SBC would have been as well or better off if former SBC moderates were still around and involved, then I read about some of that group like C. Welton Gaddy (here) and get over it. Thank God for the CR.

That last sentence above "Thank God for the CR." makes me want to puke. So many people were hurt by the hostile takeover and the damage to people's lives continues to this very day.

The 2000 BF&M continues to be used to hurt people. So, I just do not see much to be thankful about from the 1979 till now debacle. But those that support the CR and 2000 BF&M probably view the people hurt as just those that needed to leave anyhow voluntarily or not, it just does not matter what happened to them and their families.

I know I am ranting but sometimes I need to.

[David Flick]

[William Thornton]

[Dave Roberts]

[Big Daddy Weaver]

[Tom Parker]

David Flick:

You said:"Anyway, I vividly recall the moment when Dr. Wayne Dehoney pointed to the skyboxes where Pressler, Patterson, and minions were ensconced."

Sadly, the minions are still at work in the SBC trying and sadly too often succeeding in getting removed anyone that does not see the Baptist world exactly the way they do--2000 BF&M being a good example.

The association that the church I attend just in the last week disfellowshipped a church that dared to call a woman Pastor.

Sadly, you know how these things are done--most of it out of the daylight so that others see can not see how mean and narrow-minded they are.

It is just like Washington DC--knowing the outcome before anything is done and then trying to act suprised at what happens.

As I said to someone at church last night--for the most parts nonchristians will never bother a christian's life, livelihood, but too often the harm is from those people who claim the name of Christ.

You've felt that sting from these "frioends" and so have many others.

The mass of SB do not have a clue how these things are done to Dom's, pastor's etc., because they are rarely given an opportunity to defend themselves.

[William Thornton]

[Stephen Fox]

[Neil Heath]

[David Flick]

[William Thornton]

Thanks David and Neil. I'll add it to my collection. I feel sure I have many more spurs than anyone else. I'm thinking of cashing them in and retiring.

[Dave Roberts]