Chick-fil-A Gets in Confrontations with Gay Rights

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Chick-fil-A Gets in Confrontations with Gay Rights

Postby Gene Scarborough » Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:25 am

A Chicken Chain’s Corporate Ethos Is Questioned by Gay Rights Advocates By KIM SEVERSON
Published: January 29, 2011
Rich Addicks for The New York Times
S. Truett Cathy, the founder of Chick-fil-A, built a fast-food empire on the popularity of a simple chicken sandwich.
Rich Addicks for The New York Times
Customers at a Chick-fil-A restaurant in Decatur, Ga., are greeted by a photograph of the company’s founder, S. Truett Cathy.
New Yorkers have sprinted through the airport here to grab one between flights. College students returning home stop for one even before they say hello to their parents.

But never on Sunday, when the chain is closed.

Nicknamed “Jesus chicken” by jaded secular fans and embraced by Evangelical Christians, Chick-fil-A is among only a handful of large American companies with conservative religion built into its corporate ethos. But recently its ethos has run smack into the gay rights movement. A Pennsylvania outlet’s sponsorship of a February marriage seminar by one of that state’s most outspoken groups against homosexuality lit up gay blogs around the country. Students at some universities have also begun trying to get the chain removed from campuses.

“If you’re eating Chick-fil-A, you’re eating anti-gay,” one headline read. The issue spread into Christian media circles, too.

The outcry moved the company’s president, Dan T. Cathy, to post a video on the company’s Facebook fan page to “communicate from the heart that we serve and value all people and treat everyone with honor, dignity and respect,” said a company spokesman, Don Perry.

Providing sandwiches and brownies for a local seminar is not an endorsement or a political stance, Mr. Cathy says in the video. But he adds that marriage has long been a focus of the chain, which S. Truett Cathy, his deeply religious father, began in 1967.

The donation has some fans cheering and others forcing themselves to balance their food desires against their personal beliefs.

“Does loving Chick-fil-A make you a bad gay?” said Rachel Anderson of Berkeley, Calif. “Oh, golly, human beings have an amazing capacity to justify a lot of things.” Ms. Anderson has been with her partner for 15 years. They married in California during the brief period when same-sex marriage was legal in 2008. They have 7-year-old twins. A visit to her spouse’s family in North Carolina always includes a trip to the chicken chain.

But as she learns more about the company, Ms. Anderson is wavering about where to eat when they travel to Charlotte in April.

“I’m going to have to sit with this a little bit,” she said.

On the other hand, Rhonda Cline, a dental hygienist in Atlanta and a devout Christian, has only gotten more outspoken in her support. She was one of nearly a thousand people who logged onto the Chick-fil-A Facebook page to comment on the issue.

“I applaud a company that in this climate today will step out on a limb the way the Constitution allows them to,” Ms. Cline said in an interview. “This is the United States, so we should be able to practice our business the way we like.”

But religious values are not the main reason Ms. Cline goes to Chick-fil-A.

“I’m in a crunch at lunchtime, and these people are fast and they are smiling and they act like they are really happy you’re there,” she said.

Chick-fil-A runs 1,530 restaurants in 39 states, but it still feels like a hometown restaurant to fans in Georgia, which has 189 outlets. Sales figures for 2010 will most likely be over $3.5 billion, a spokesman said.

S. Truett Cathy, the founder, is an 89-year-old, Harley-riding Southern Baptist who opened a small diner near the Atlanta airport 1946. He closed the business on Sundays because he was a churchgoer who wanted a day to rest and be with his family.

Because the company remains privately held — his two sons run it — it can easily keep its faith-based principles intact. The company’s corporate purpose is, in part, “to glorify God by being a faithful steward of all that is entrusted to us.”

With its near-national reach and its transparent conservative Christian underpinnings, Chick-fil-A is a trailblazer of sorts, said Lake Lambert, the author of “Spirituality, Inc.” and dean of the college of liberal arts at Mercer University, where he teaches Christianity.

“They’re going in a direction we haven’t seen in faith-based businesses before, and that is to a much broader marketing of themselves and their products,” he said. “This is possibly the next phase of evangelical Christianity’s muscle flexing.”



The company’s Christian culture and its strict hiring practices, which require potential operators to discuss their marital status and civic and church involvement, have attracted controversy before, including a 2002 lawsuit brought by a Muslim restaurant owner in Houston who said he was fired because he did not pray to Jesus with other employees at a training session. The suit was settled.

The sandwiches that will feed people who attend a February seminar, called “The Art of Marriage: Getting to the Heart of God’s Design,” in Harrisburg, Pa., are but a tiny donation.

Over the years, the company’s operators, its WinShape Foundation and the Cathy family have given millions of dollars to a variety of causes and programs, including scholarships that require a pledge to follow Christian values, a string of Christian-based foster homes and groups working to defeat same-sex marriage initiatives.

Michael Geer, the president of the Pennsylvania Family Institute and a fan of the Chick-fil-A southwest salad with spicy dressing, says the whole thing has been blown out of proportion. He simply asked a local, independent operator to provide lunch.

“I like to support businesses that stand up for good in society, and I love their food, so it’s a win-win situation,” he said.

For organizations like Georgia Equality, the state’s largest advocacy group for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender issues, the free sandwiches offer an opportunity for organizing.

On a petition posted on the Web site change.org, it asks the company to stop supporting groups perceived as anti-gay, including Focus on the Family, an international nonprofit organization that teamed up with Chick-fil-A a few years ago to give away CDs of its Bible-based “Adventures in Odyssey” radio show with every kid’s meal.

As of early Saturday, it had 25,000 signatures.

Among some customers who are not religious, the outcry seems like overkill.

“I’m not a fan of Jesus at all, but I still go to Chick-fil-A maybe once a week,” said Tony Parker, 25, of San Antonio. “Your reason for not going to a fast-food place is bad customer service and poor food quality, not religion.”

But Douglas Quint, a concert bassoonist who operates The Big Gay Ice Cream Truck in New York during the summer, said he believed that people should make informed decisions about their food.

“It literally leaves a bad taste because I know the people who are putting this food in my mouth actively loathe me,” he said. “I’m all for freedom of religion, it’s just that I know where I want my money to go and I don’t want my money to go.”

Sarah Beth Thomas, 23, sees both sides of the issue. Ms. Thomas grew up as a Southern Baptist in a small town in north Georgia. Her daily high school lunch was a Chick-fil-A chicken biscuit and sweet tea. On Mondays, she would bring in her church bulletin and exchange it for a free sandwich.

Since college, her views have softened but not her dedication to the chain. Now, she says, she is hooked on the chicken, not the religion.

Still, she said she had empathy for people who struggle to choose between their beliefs and a sandwich.

“It’s a hard call, a personal call,” she said. “You have to decide which soul you want to feed.”
Last edited by Gene Scarborough on Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chick-fil-A Gets in Confrontations with Gay Rights

Postby Gene Scarborough » Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:37 am

This is most interesting to me. It seems one of our "Baptist Saints," Truett Cathey's famous company, founded with good Baptist roots and highly successful, is now the focus of complaints by the Gay Rights Movement. The sons who are the co-CEO's now are trying to be kind and find a middle ground with the movement cannot do so without drawing the wrath of Baptists and other conservative groups.

It is a privately owned Corporation with the right of the funding family heirs to autonomously decide what to do with their business policies.

Cathey's Foundation is a large contributor to Baptist causes, especially in Georgia. My father knew him and was Interim Pastor at his church near the Atlanta Airport. His first place of business is within eyesight of the Airport in Hapeville. His church is FBC Hapeville and it has received large bequsts and solid support from the Cathey family.

So----what happens when a Baptist-related large donor business runs "afowl" of the Baptist ethos???? Will they get kicked out as are churches like Broadway and several others in NC which are no longer allowed to contribute per the new NC Financial Policy???
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Re: Chick Filet Gets in Confrontations with Gay Rights

Postby Ed Pettibone » Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:39 am

Ed: I may start eating Chicken more than one a year! They have some cute commercials.
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Re: Chick-fil-A Gets in Confrontations with Gay Rights

Postby Gene Scarborough » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:53 am

This event was on last night's news and again a lead story on Good Morning America. It is appearing to blossom quickly in the media.
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Re: Chick-fil-A Gets in Confrontations with Gay Rights

Postby Ed Pettibone » Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:34 pm

Gene Scarborough wrote:This event was on last night's news and again a lead story on Good Morning America. It is appearing to blossom quickly in the media.


Ed; I Haven't seen it on local news outlet here in the NY Capital area nor on the NBC's national news . And I find nothing of it in the Schenectady Daily News.

I missed Good Morning America but their web site shows Egyptians protest
Crisis in Egypt: Hundreds of Americans Flee. as the lead story Then: Adult Film Star Says Sheen Asked If She Would Move In – And Babysit, Followed by :Tiger Mom's' Husband: I Agree with '99%' of Her Parenting And then Rice Cereal Controversy: Does It Make Kids Fat?

Can you give me a lead as to where to find the Chiick-fil-a story.
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Re: Chick-fil-A Gets in Confrontations with Gay Rights

Postby Ed Pettibone » Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:15 pm

Ed: Gene I found this on my own http://www.ajc.com/business/chick-fil-a ... 21566.html

Note the headline:
Chick-fil-A counters criticism from gay rights groups: "We're not anti-anybody"

and "Chick-fil-A can sponsor who they want. It's a free country," said Will Kohler, administrator of a gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender blog called back2stonewall.com. "But they shouldn't get upset when they get found out supporting issues and ideas that discriminate against a section of their customers."

In an exclusive interview Sunday with The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, president Dan Cathy defended Chick-fil-A. He called reports in the blogosphere "folklore" and misleading.

"We're not anti-anybody," said Cathy, son of the company's founder, Truett Cathy. "Our mission is to create raving fans."

Earlier this month, Cathy appeared on a Facebook video to argue that the Chick-fil-A sandwiches and brownies to be provided at a marriage-training event sponsored by the Pennsylvania Family Institute are not an endorsement of the group's politics.

On Saturday, Cathy issued a statement saying that "While my family and I believe in the Biblical definition of marriage, we love and respect anyone who disagrees." Cathy said Chick-fil-A would not champion any political agendas on marriage and family. That is not a change from previous practice, Cathy said -- "just a confirmation."


Big news in Atlanta is not of necessity Big News every where.
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Re: Chick-fil-A Gets in Confrontations with Gay Rights

Postby Gene Scarborough » Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:05 pm

Ed--

My brother---the article I cited at the beginning is NY Times, man, NY Times!!!!!

That oughtta make a good New Yorker happy!!!
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CBF and Log Cabin Republicans

Postby Stephen Fox » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:29 pm

First, Gene or Baptistlife Monitors ought to move this discussion to Public Policy or some other Forum. I don't see where it has anything to do with CBF.

That said I think the Log Cabin Republican spokesman got this one about right, much ado about nothing witch hunt when you boil it down.

Dan CAthy sat beside me in Bob Crapps intro to Religion Class at Furman the Fall of 1971. Crapps as you know was one of the three who with Jack Flanders caught Judge Pressler's eye with People of the Covenant.

While I may nuance or tack differentlly from the Cathy's on some issues, the politics of abortion mostly; The Cathy Family, the Winshape Program, Chic FilA are a great American Institution. They may be a little Norman Rockwell at times, but Norman Rockwell Baptists if you want to check are the heart and soul of funding most of what is progressive Baptist work and the many non-profits that are offshoots.

While I wish Chic Fil A could have taken something of a more corporate definitive stance in the Baptist Struggle; and maybe in Georgia wish some of the candidates they backed for political office coulda been more of the striping of Presbyterian layman Bertis Downs than Charles Stanley or Johnny Hunt; it is a matter of record when push came to shove Truett Cathy stood by Kirby Godsey at Mercer.

So I stand with the Cathy's on this one. Truett Was named for George Truett himself, and with few exceptions has carried that namesake grandly.

Here is the Log Cabin response:

In response to the Chick-fil-A uproar, R. Clarke Cooper, executive director of the Log Cabin Republicans, told The Daily Caller that both free speech and the “free market of ideas” are important for Americans to have.

“As the conservative organization for the gay community, Log Cabin Republicans has long defended freedom of speech and the free market of ideas,” Cooper told TheDC. “We, along with many fellow Republicans, believe in individual liberty and individual responsibility. American consumers have the freedom to make their own informed decisions and patronize their businesses of choice.”

GOProud chairman of the board of directors Christopher Barron wrote in an email to TheDC that Chick-fil-A protests are “counter-productive” and analogous to “witch hunts.”

“With the gay left it’s all stick and no carrot. Instead of working to change hearts and minds the angry gay left would rather go on witch hunts,” Barron wrote. “The witch hunts by the professionally outraged gay protestor class may feel good, but I think they are incredibly counter-productive. To most of the world a chicken sandwich is just a chicken sandwich and folks who try to politicize everything usually end up doing more harm to their cause at the end of the day.”



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Re: Chick-fil-A Gets in Confrontations with Gay Rights

Postby Ed Pettibone » Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:39 am

S. Fox writes; First, Gene or Baptistlife Monitors ought to move this discussion to Public Policy or some other Forum. I don't see where it has anything to do with CBF.

Ed: Steve I agree totally. And BTW the rest of that post is good also. Tis interesting to see the differences in the two Gay friendly groups.
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Re: Chick-fil-A Gets in Confrontations with Gay Rights

Postby Gene Scarborough » Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:16 am

I have no qualms about a move to another forum location. Being new to this board, I had no idea where was the most appropriate location.

For sure, CBF is more receptive to ministry without judgementalism so that was my thinking. For the Chick-fil-A folks it is a dilemma over "just doing business" without prejudice / for the Gay Rights folks it is an opportunity for free public notice since the restaurant chain is so well known.

A good friend of mine who is joyfully very conservative spent most of yesterday castigating me for just being neutral on judgementalism and preferring to leave such to God. Remember, Jesus said NOTHING about homosexuals when it certainly was an issue in his day---only homosexuals were hiding out from the Pharisees then. We have had them always, so what are we going to do with them as followers of Christ? Marv Knox of the Baptist Standard did the only addressing of the issue I know among Baptist State papers. It drew strident responses last summer.

Is this just another version of that crazy group of ultra-right protestors by the super-fundamentalist churches of Florida and the mid-west???? :? I miss the days when "a screw was just a screw and gay meant 'happy.'" :lol:
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Re: Chick-fil-A Gets in Confrontations with Gay Rights

Postby Gene Scarborough » Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:25 am

Here's a quick look at the first page of my search of this story this morning:

Chick-fil-A Partners With Rabid Anti-Gay Group | Gay Rights ...

You might like the tasty pickles that they put on their chicken sandwiches, but if you're eating at Chick-fil-A, you're also eating at an establishment that ...
gayrights.change.org/blog/view/chick-fil-a_partners_wit... gayrights.change.org/blog/view/chick-fil-a_partners_with_rabid_anti-gay_group

Yes, Chick-fil-A Says, We Explicitly Do Not Like Same-Sex Couples ...

Jan 26, 2011 ... 4 days ago ∙ GAY RIGHTS. Chick-fil-A Booted from Indiana ...
news.change.org/stories/yes-chick-fil-a-says-we-explici... news.change.org/stories/yes-chick-fil-a-says-we-explicitly-do-not-like-same-sex-couples

Controversial Chicken: Chick-fil-A's Gay Rights Rumble - TIME NewsFeed

Jan 29, 2011 ... (More on TIME.com: See a photo history of the gay-rights movement.) Chick-fil-A has long-been transparent about its Christian values. ...
newsfeed.time.com/2011/01/31/controversial-chicken-chic... newsfeed.time.com/2011/01/31/controversial-chicken-chick-fil-a-gay-rights-rumble/

Gay College Students Vs. Chick-fil-A | Change.org News

Jan 27, 2011 ... 5 days ago ∙ GAY RIGHTS. Chick-fil-A Responds, But ...
news.change.org/stories/gay-college-students-vs-chick-f... news.change.org/stories/gay-college-students-vs-chick-fil-a

Chick-fil-A counters criticism from gay rights groups: "We're not ...

Jan 31, 2011 ... The president of Chick-fil-A insists the company is not anti-gay, defending the restaurant chain against withering criticism from gay rights ...
http://www.ajc.com/business/chick-fil-a ... 21566.html

Chick-fil-A Partners With Rabid Anti-Gay Group | Change.org News

Jan 4, 2011 ... 4 days ago ∙ GAY RIGHTS. Chick-fil-A Booted from Indiana ...
news.change.org/stories/chick-fil-a-partners-with-rabid... news.change.org/stories/chick-fil-a-partners-with-rabid-anti-gay-group

Popular chicken chain under fire for anti-gay marriage donations ...

Jan 31, 2011 ... I shop Target, BestBuy, and will be getting lunch at Chick-Fil-A. Quit trying to get everyone on the Gay Rights Parade. ...
news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110131/us_yblog_the... news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110131/us_yblog_thelookout/popular-chicken-chain-under-fire-for-anti-gay-marriage-donations

Is Chick-fil-A restaurant against gay rights? Anti-gay site claims ...

After a gay blog, GoodAsYou, posted a screen capture from the site yesterday, the sponsorship from the restaurant chain Chick-fil-A quickly ...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2651665/posts

Chick-Fil-A Sponsors Anti-Gay Group | PerezHilton.com

Jan 4, 2011 ... It has just been revealed that the restaurant Chick-Fil-A is sponsoring two ... and has condemned the expansion of civil rights for same-sex couples. ... Tags: anti gay, chick fil a, gay marriage, michael geer, sponspors ...
perezhilton.com/2011-01-04-chick-fil-a-restaurant-spons... perezhilton.com/2011-01-04-chick-fil-a-restaurant-sponsors-anti-gay-group

Is Chick-fil-A restaurant against gay rights? Anti-gay site claims ...

Is Chick-fil-A restaurant against gay rights? Anti-gay site claims affiliation with fast-food eatery. Posted by duy on January 4, 2011 5:38 PM | Permalink ...
http://www.metroweekly.com/news/last_wo ... hick-fil... http://www.metroweekly.com/news/last_wo ... -chai.html
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Re: Chick-fil-A Gets in Confrontations with Gay Rights

Postby Dave Roberts » Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:08 am

We had a seminar on Islam once and Subway gave us a special deal on lunch. Does that make them pro or anti Muslim?
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Re: Chick-fil-A Gets in Confrontations with Gay Rights

Postby Haruo » Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:52 pm

If you got Subway to make sure the lunch was all halal, it sure does.
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Re: Chick-fil-A Gets in Confrontations with Gay Rights

Postby Jerry_B » Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:53 pm

This is so ridiculous it really shows more about the leanings of the NY Times author then the well known leanings of Chick-fil-a. They are a private company and support or not support whatever they want. I resent the continual attempts of "gay rights" groups to make something out of nothing stories and happenings. BTW Next time I am in town I am buying lunch at Chick-fil-a
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Re: Chick-fil-A Gets in Confrontations with Gay Rights

Postby Haruo » Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:59 pm

PS I am thinking about moving this topic, as I agree with Steve and Ed that it's not germane to CBF missions and ministry. But I'm not sure if it belongs most to Baptist Faith & Practice or to Politics and Public Policy Issues. I lean towards the former because the Baptist connection is definitely part of its focus. Input welcome.
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Re: Chick-fil-A Gets in Confrontations with Gay Rights

Postby Gene Scarborough » Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:51 pm

I am too new to know the basic nature of either category and trust your judgement totally.
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Re: Chick-fil-A Gets in Confrontations with Gay Rights

Postby Dave Roberts » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:30 am

BF&P would be my choice.
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Re: Chick-fil-A Gets in Confrontations with Gay Rights

Postby Haruo » Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:16 pm

Done.
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Re: Chick-fil-A Gets in Confrontations with Gay Rights

Postby Ed Pettibone » Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:35 pm

Dave Roberts wrote:BF&P would be my choice.


Post by Haruo » 02 Feb 2011, 14:16
Done.

Ed Thaks Dave and Good move Haruo. :)
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Re: Chick-fil-A Gets in Confrontations with Gay Rights

Postby Big Daddy Weaver » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:04 pm

I think, especially in light of the Citizens United SCOTUS ruling, that we - as responsible Christian citizens - should keep a close eye on major corporations such as Chick-fil-A and the political causes that they lend aid to...

My understanding is that this controversy involves one franchise in Pennsylvania. If I lived near that particular franchise, I might be a bit bothered that Chick-fil-A was co-sponsoring an event with a right-wing group. I'd probably simply choose to eat somewhere else. There are a couple of restaurants around here that I choose not to frequent due to the politics/morals of the owner. I also note that the PA Chick-fil-A is listed as a "co-sponsor" of the event. That seems to indicate a greater level of support than simply having a contract to cater the meals served at the event.

Religion Dispatches has an interesting article by a lesbian minister in the UCC on this topic. [url=http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispatches/candacechellew-hodge/4144/chick-fil-a_means_“anti-gay”/]Here's a snippet:[/url]

Boycotts of Chick-fil-A have been called for, but as any consumer knows, fighting injustice is not as easy as simply heading for another chicken outfit. I know Wal-Mart is ethically challenged in many ways and has decimated many local economies with its low prices - and low wages. But, when you’re in a small town and that’s all that’s left, sometimes you’ve got to dance with the devil to get eggs and bread. Target used to be the alternative - though a longer drive - but even they are now suspect after making campaign contributions to anti-gay candidates last year. Economic morality is a challenging game, and often not very effective as taste buds and Weight Watcher point programs win out.

Dan Cathy protests that serving food at these marriage events is “not an endorsement of the mission, political stance or motives of this or any other organization,” but I don’t see any of their restaurants at gay pride events, so it’s clear that the company does choose who it will cater to, and who it won’t.

For gays and lesbians continually facing economic, political, and religious oppression, it may feel good to quietly “eat less chikin” and put fewer dollars in Cathy coffers, but a more effective strategy may be what gays and lesbians in the church have done - refuse to leave and instead become more vocal, more visible, and continue to agitate for full equality in every facet of the institution.



As a side note, I've met Truett Cathy on a few occasions. I was good friends with his niece throughout high school and college. Cathy was a big supporter of the Paul Anderson Youth Home and paid the college tuition of many of the Youth Home graduates.
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Re: Chick-fil-A Gets in Confrontations with Gay Rights

Postby HowellS » Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:33 pm

My first reaction to the NY Times' article was, "O, brother!" As I continued reading, and especially Aaron's posting of the lesbian minister's comments, I have changed my initial thoughts. If I would have seen this article before I left for the Baptist Convention of New Mexico' annual Evangelism Conference this week in Albuquerque, I would have made a point of eating at least one meal at the local Chick-fil-A restaurant just around the corner from our hotel. Since our Student Pastor was with me, we would have doubled up.

This is utterly ridiculous. If the radical homosexual rights groups want to boycott Chick-fil-A, that is certainly their right. But, Christians and non-believers who have not bought into this radical agenda will continue to eat at Chick-fil-A. I do think that Dan Cathey is being a bit disingenuous when he says that just because they cater an event they do not somehow endorse it. As Aaron points out, you don't see any local franchises supplying chicken sandwiches to gay rights groups. The Albuquerque Chick-fil-A donated food for last year's Young Lives Ablaze Children's event sponsored by the BCNM. I'm sure that they must have agreed with what our organization was trying to accomplish. They should be proud of their sponsorship (and same with the PA franchise) and not let the gay rights' bullies (see Seinfeld) intimidate them. That being said, if you don't like a corporation or business' policy, then don't patronize them and or don't eat at the restaurant. Thanks and God bless,
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Re: Chick-fil-A Gets in Confrontations with Gay Rights

Postby Ed Pettibone » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:10 am

Gene Scarborough wrote:Ed--

My brother---the article I cited at the beginning is NY Times, man, NY Times!!!!!

That oughtta make a good New Yorker happy!!!


Ed: Gene, this demonstrates how little you learned about the State of New York during Your brief sojourn near Binghamton in the 80's. The Times has rather limited circulation in the state of NY other than in in NYC and the Lower Hudson Vally. The City itself is unpopular with many upstate residents and the times more so.
Myself, I love visiting The City but the cost of living is prohibitive. When we visit the City we stay in New Jersey and take a bus in.

But here is another Times story on the subject. BTW there is no Chick-Fil-a franchise in the Capital area and aparently according to this story only ONE in NYC.
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Re: Chick-fil-A Gets in Confrontations with Gay Rights

Postby Gene Scarborough » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:19 am

Last time I was there years ago we parked our camper in the Staton Island Ferry parking lot!!! You haven't lived until you drive a motorhome around NYC!

I was in Loris, SC, at the time and our children wanted to climb up the Statue of LIberty as their main interest. When we awoke Sunday morning, a bum sitting on the bench greeted me as I took the dog out. When he asked where we were from, I found out he was from just up the road at Mullins, SC! His comment I shall never forget: "I ain't gonna crop no mo' tobacco!"

I was thinking: "Your family and cousins at least have a roof over their heads in SC, and here you are thinking you have arrived in NYC sleeping on a Staton Island park bench! I think you would be a whole lot better off back in SC!"

Ah well, to each his own.
Last edited by Gene Scarborough on Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chick-fil-A Gets in Confrontations with Gay Rights

Postby Ed Pettibone » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:17 am

Gene Scarborough wrote:Last time I was there years ago we parked our camper in the Staton Island Ferry parking lot!!! You haven't lived until you drive a motorhome around NYC!

I was a Loris, SC, at the time and our children wanted to climb up the Statue of LIberty as their main interest. When we awoke Sunday morning a bum sitting on the bench greeted me as I took the dog out. When he asked where we were from, I found out he was from just up the road at Mullins, SC! His comment I shall never forget: "I ain't gonna crop no mo' tobacco!"

I was thinking: "Your family and cousins at least have a roof over their heads in SC, and here you are thinking you have arrived in NYC sleeping on a Staton Island park bench! I think you would be a whole lot better off back in SC!"

Ah well, to each his own.


Ed: As I said above, I do not drive in The City nor do I stay in The City. Primarily because of the price for parking and Hotels, grnerally two seperate charges. For future reference there is a well fenced RV Park in Jersey City. We have even tented there.

And BTW, I have seen homeless in Columbia and you may want to check these out
TOP South Carolina Homeless Shelter Searches
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Re: Chick-fil-A Gets in Confrontations with Gay Rights

Postby Gene Scarborough » Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:26 am

Southern Baptists and other faith groups now enter the frey of Gay Marriage according to Baptist Press:

]Faith groups unite in 'gay marriage' case Posted on Feb 3, 2011 | by Michael Foust

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (BP)--A diverse coalition that includes some of the nation's leading religious groups -- Southern Baptists, Catholics, Mormons and Jews -- has come together to file a legal brief in a major federal "gay marriage" case, asserting that redefining marriage to include homosexual couples could adversely affect the children raised in such homes.

The groups also assert that their argument is not motivated by prejudice but by, in part, common sense and social science.

"Research rebuts the suggestion that either fathers or mothers are unnecessary for effective childrearing," the 31-page brief, filed Jan. 27 with the U.S. First Circuit Court of Appeals, states. "... Through millions of hours of counseling and other ministry over literally centuries, we have seen at close range the enormous benefits that traditional male-female marriage imparts. We have also witnessed the substantial adverse consequences for children, parents, and civil society that often flow from alternative household arrangements."

The friend-of-the-court brief ads, "Our faith communities are intimately familiar with the personal tragedies so often associated with fatherless and motherless parenting and family disintegration."

The brief was filed nearly seven months after Judge Joseph L. Tauro issued a landmark decision striking down part of the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act and ruling that the federal government must recognize "gay marriages" from such states as Massachusetts and Vermont. It was appealed, and if upheld by the First Circuit, would place the United States alongside the 10 other countries worldwide that recognize homosexual "marriage." It also would force the government to grant federal benefits, such as tax breaks and federal employee spousal insurance, to same-sex couples.

Eighteen religious groups representing "tens of millions of Americans" signed onto the brief, including the Southern Baptist Convention's Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, the National Association of Evangelicals, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod and the Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations in America.

DOMA, as it is called, passed by wide margins in the House and Senate in 1996 and was signed by President Clinton. Congress said the law was needed, in part, to encourage "responsible procreation and child rearing," but Tauro, in his ruling, said the Constitution does not allow Congress to defend "traditional notions of morality."

The Obama Justice Department has abandoned the childrearing argument in its defense of the law, but the religious groups do just the opposite, encouraging the First Circuit to focus on the issue. The religious groups also argue that the Supreme Court has upheld morality as the basis for laws. The brief says it is "absurd" to think that a law cannot have a moral basis.

"Nearly all legislation involves moral judgments," the brief states. "The great legislative debates of the past century -- from business and labor regulations, to civil rights legislation, to environmentalism, to military spending, to universal health care, etc. -- centered on contested questions of morality. The same is true of our current democratic conversation about the definition and purpose of marriage, which the Supreme Court long ago recognized as having 'more to do with the morals and civilization of a people than any other institution.'"

Striking down DOMA, the groups argue, would "not remove morality from the marriage debate."

"But it would disenfranchise millions of Americans who take one side of that debate while privileging those with the opposing view," the brief says.

The groups say the Defense of Marriage Act is based not on religion but on social science and common sense. DOMA is needed, they say, because man-woman marriage is "closely tied to the welfare of children, the well-being of the family, and the health of the nation."

The groups express frustration over Tauro's claim that "it is only irrational prejudice that motivates" legislators to protect the traditional definition of marriage.

"That is simply untrue," the brief states. "As supporters of DOMA, our deepest convictions about marriage are quite distinct from our beliefs concerning homosexuality, and it is false and unfair to marginalize those convictions by portraying them as 'irrational prejudice.' Our faith communities and other religious organizations have a long and vibrant history of upholding traditional marriage for reasons that have little to do with homosexuality."

The brief concludes, "[W]hatever the failings (past or present) of particular individuals within our religious communities, we are united in condemning hatred and mistreatment of homosexuals. We believe that God calls us to love homosexual persons, even as we steadfastly defend our belief that traditional marriage is both divinely ordained and experientially best for families and society. This considered judgment is informed by our moral reasoning, our religious convictions, and our long experience counseling and ministering to adults and children."

In addition to the groups already mentioned, the following groups also signed the brief: the Massachusetts Catholic Conference, the Brethren in Christ Church, the Christian and Missionary Alliance, the Conservative Congregational Christian Conference, the Evangelical Free Church of America, the Evangelical Presbyterian Church, the International Church of the Foursquare Gospel, the International Pentecostal Holiness Church, the Missionary Church, Open Bible Churches (USA), the United Brethren in Christ Church, and the Wesleyan Church.

Michael Foust is associate editor of Baptist Press.



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