Global Warming Thread XI

[David Flick]

[KeithE]

This will be short since I'm in the passenger seat .

David is an idiot for believing a 11 year record.

Those that promulgate this cherry picking ignoring the years from 1850-1997 and july 2009 until today are irresponsible frauds.

You are have seen all the many plots that show all the DATA.

I desire that all of BL declare KeithE or David.

[KeithE]

This will be short since I'm in the passenger seat .

David is an idiot for believing a 11 year record.

Those that promulgate this cherry picking ignoring the years from 1850-1997 and july 2009 until today are irresponsible frauds.

You are have seen all the many plots that show all the DATA.

I desire that all of BL declare KeithE or David.

[David Flick]

[Jim]

Beginning today is this:
29 November - 10 December: 16th Conference of the Parties (COP 16)/ 6th Conference of the Parties serving as the meeting of the Parties to the Kyoto Protocol - COP 16 & CMP 6 (UNFCCC)Cancun, Mexico

One year ago, the troops traveled to Copenhagen for the big IPCC meeting to set cap/trade loose on all the world, especially the USA. Of course, the huge vacation for the world leaders was rained upon by the news released shortly before that manmade climate-change was a huge fraud, notwithstanding the Nobels for Algore and Obamessiah, true believers in the Kool-Aid. If the dears from here and yon can manage not to get in the drug-wars, they should have a marvelous time in gay Cancun, a vacation just right for welcoming the winter season and dreaming up another crisis, which the president surely agrees should not go to waste.

[KeithE]

[Jim]

[David Flick]

[David Flick]

[Jim]

In balmy Cancun where they met
To save the earth, midst floods of sweat,
They spoke of CO2 as bad,
The worst of curses earth has had.

The presidente – Calderon –
Said human beings must hang on,
Survival is at stake, said he…
On Cancun’s streets especially.

The two-score-five of thousands heard
That Copenhagen had incurred
A temporary setback sad
When Michael Mann had just been bad.

The IPCC gurus know
The CRU guys have to go
Since they give climate a bad name
When only lies say it will flame.

Chorus:

But have no worry,
To your AC’s do not scurry,
Mother Nature’s in no hurry,
So all your fears let go and just bury!

[tune: Cocktails for Two (1934) – Spike Jones special]

[David Flick]

[Chris]

Jesse Ventura's fascinating program on TRU TV, Friday nights, addressed a couple of topics last night.

1. Global Warming. How certain prominent figures are profiting in big ways from the "global warming scare". There is a lot of money being made by companies that are in the business of (allegedly) reducing carbon emissions. One researcher postulated that it is the SUN not men on Earth that is causing the effects we are observing. I.e., Man didn't cause it; Man can't fix it. He pretty much convinced me.

2. Water-hoarding, and reselling. Shocking pictures of Lake Mead (including a boat dock about 20 feet above the water line), which is receeding. Who is one of primary villains in the waterhoarding-waterreselling venutres....Daivd's hero, T. Boone Pickens! He is on tape saying he is gonna "get rich" with this venture...and he doesn't seem the least ashamed for it. I'm sorry, there isn't a direct link to this story at Jesse's web site.

[KeithE]

[David Flick]

[KeithE]

[David Flick]

[David Flick]

[KeithE]

[Jim]

After having a warmer than usual summer and fall, though not with 100-degree temps as was the case in 1936 on a multiplicity of days, many of them consecutive, my area is in the grip of a cold spell that has been around for days and is continuing. Today’s high will be 25 degrees below normal and we will not approach normal this week or even come close until maybe Friday, when things start down again. Europe is suffering miserably again. Climatology is perhaps the most obfuscatory of all the sciences and therefore virtually unsusceptible to any influences by people, who can do little more than measure it in various ways over long periods but without a clue as to what causes most things to happen in other than the shortest of time-periods such as involved in issuing warnings (about 15 minutes maximum, at that) before a tornado will strike. Hurricane forecasting has improved immensely, not in numbers expected but in paths that even then can’t be predicted with specificity until just hours before landfall. The Cancun Celebration of misinformation, propaganda and an obvious attempt to penalize this country (China by far the guiltiest emitter of the gas du jour or whatever, with India close behind) has become a laughingstock of the world but has also been a marvelous all-expenses-paid vacation for thousands. I’ve noticed virtually nothing about it in the U.S. media.

[Ed Edwards]

most Global Warming in the World is in the coldest portions. Again, it is the overall the earth average that is going up , but not at 0.6°C per decade rate but more like 0.4°C per decade NOW. Again, as I have said time and tim...e again: in the winter my desk top and my feet may vary 0.4°C - I can barely feel the difference. The human being is NOT capable of noticing the 0.4°C rise in world temperature over the decade 2001-2010 (First Decade of the 21st Century (2001-2100) and of the 3rd Millennium (2001-3000). So GW = global surface warming, must be measured by insterments and averaged by computers.

// if the earth as a whole was getting hotter then you would think that everywhere would be getting hotter \\

FALSE
1. It is the surface of the earth, where the sky meets the land & or ocean - that as a whole is what is consi...dered
2. Some predictions (not yet proved FALSE) are that the fresh water melting off Greenland will kill the Gulf Stream. If the Gulf Stream stops bringing warm Bahama water to GB & Ireland -- those places will be cooler then they are now. There is more going on than ONLY CO2 rises going on. Personally I expect that GB will bet colder and colder, they are 15° warmer in the winter than they aught to be. Go check the winter weather at NOVOSIBIRSK, Siberia, Russia -- that is what Ireland should be like Tee Hee - 18°F today (-12°C) in Novo...See More
Compare to Greater Manchester's high of 32°F (0°C)

[Ed Edwards]

Frank: // I don't need to show you. Its not hard to find out for yourself \\
I looked for myself, As a retired data examiner, the data convinces me that you all aught to do something about th...e heating of the earth's surface. I'm out of here in the next 20 years or less. You cannot control 99.99% of the sun's heat arriving at the surface of the earth. You cannot control 99.9% of the heat rising from the interior of the earth. You can learn to control enough of the emission of Carbon Dixoide (CO2) from fossil fuel burning to keep the earth's surface from rising more than 2°C by 2050. Remember, the species you save might just be the human race.

Frank: // Ed, everything you've talked about are hypotheticals that are tirelessly repeated to play on peoples fears. \\

I have REALLY been afraid for the past 45 years of my life (as an adult). First I invested my fortune in getting a job... where I could help the earth with my major job (I am retired). The problem was that nuclear war could destroy all life ('hypotheticals' differed from all humans with enough to eat to all forms of life on earth). but about 45 years ago i got interested in the HALF LIFE OF OIL (world view, actually includes all petro chemicals, also known as (AKA): fossil fuels. The half life (considering several hypotheticals) would be reached about 1985 to 2020 as seen in 1975) Now in 2010 it looks like the answer is 2012. Where did all the extra heat go? In 1975 I wanted to reduce the the output of air polutants, but the Ford salesman wanted to sell me a FAST CAR (not a gas ecnomical car).
Today there is more world-wide demand for fosil fuels then ever. In fact, the rate we use energy know will start the oceans boiling in AD 2350 ± 50 years -- the demand has to go down sometimes.
(fortunately? my problems cancel each other out -- an all out nuclear war will mitigate poputlation pressures, energy demand, and only kill 90% of the population of the earth. " Most people on the earth find this sollution unactractive" Ed said, underwhelming the opposition.)

[Ed Edwards]

Frank talking about co2: // That the fraction of global co2 production that we are responsible for, some 3 percent, is, for the first time, going to alter the geological course of the planet. \\
I hope so. Maybe there is nothing we can do.... But why use the oil (fosil fuel, some denialist say the fosil fuel is NOT fosil & doesn't count) that it took God 800 Million Years to make?

Kyle: // plan, save , change, argue all you want, in the end it makes no difference. unless the entire planet, including our governments change everything we do , nothing we say is going to matter.\\

Exactly Right. It is always right to do ...the correct thing & correct to do the right thing

Kyle: // so as the world changes, so will we. global warming isnt going to kil us \\

Exactly WRONG. IT really does not matter to me in only one Billion People die in the next 30 years or six Billion people did in the next 30 yers. I am one of them; I am going to die anyway. I do not have a dog in this race - I am going to die in the next 30 years. Actually I do. I have 7 living children (including step, & in-law). I have 12 living grand-children (including step & in-laws).

[Ed Edwards]

// But we were warmer in the medieval warm, with less co2 in the atmosphere, and over geological time we've been far warmer and far colder (so far as we know). \\

And, so far as we knw, we have not gone from far colder to far marmer ...in a 200 Year period. In fact, a pixil on a Geological time chart can easly equal 80,000 years (10MYA = 10 million years ago) or 400,000 years (100MYA)See More

My Surface Temperature Anomaly chart for 2008 shows
that Ontario Canada was between -0.2°C and
+0.2°C -- normal (average for 1951-1980).
My Surface Temperature Anomaly chart for 2001-2007
shows that Ontario Canada was between +0.2°C and +0.5°...C.
The world average was +0.54°C.
Seems to me that Ontario has fairly average warming.

[David Flick]

[KeithE]