Baptist Pastor Convicted of Murder

[Big Daddy Weaver]

Former Texas Baptist pastor Matt Baker has been convicted of murdering his wife, Kari.

[William Thornton]

Christa Brown of Stop Baptist Predators gives many of the ugly, ugly details on this miscreant's case at her . In a blog two years ago Christa gave a disturbing histoy of this guy's acts - . The history included people from Baylor, the YMCA, and churches all ignoring what he had done.

Whatever one thinks about autonomy, that a minister can move around and find new places of ministry with a pattern and history like his is appalling. It is no surprise to many pastors that clergy who have consensual (and I understand the problematic use of that word in the present case where the guy seduces a counselee) adultery or who have a pattern of groping or other inappropriate behaviors may well move freely with churches and members just keeping quiet.

Sometimes this is deadly.

[Stephen Fox]

The Bible says the Heart is Evil and Desparately Wicked, Who Can Know it.

Fleming Rutledge says the Axis is here and There and Everywhere it Runs Through Each and Everyone of Us.

She also has a sermon Titled God Damned Christians which I have not testimony from, no statement from either Thornton or BDidd they have read to date. On that count I am 6 years ahead of them.

In Chinatown the Fellow says: Mr Goetz in the right set of circumstances most people never have to come to understand they are capable of anything.

Poor paraphrase, but I think that goes for Thornton, Christa Brown, and BDidd as well as the rest of us.

Paris Trout, another movie goes begging to be seen by Thornton and BDidd and at a minimum anybody near around or has any fascination with Macon, Georgia; in that Movie Paris Says:

I do the same thing again. See the trailer easily googled up.

I don't want to get into it with Christa Brown. I am hoping Texas Monthly or Frontline will take a look at her personal story.
I do think she has poor etiquette, is overconcerned with her cause on occasion, and has signs of being something of a Pharisee, Holier Than Thou, but I may be wrong.
I was disgusted with her that in the thread on the Baptist Contribution thread there is nothing good that can be said about 400 years of Baptist Witness cause of a Bad Apple in Waco Texas.
She coulda started her own thread on that one.
But I don't want to get into it with her.
I will let some other jury decided the merits of her cause, and the way she pursues it.
This is a horrible thing that Thornton and Bdidd report.

My point there are some good movies and sermons out there that speak to the darkness in all of us; else the Bible is not true and Adam never took the Apple; and as I understand this board, on that point there is not much errancy among us

[Dave Roberts]

When will church search committees wake up to the fact that they have a moral responsibility to check on prospective pastors and staff members down to the second and third levels beyond listed references. Always ask a reference if that person can supply someone else who knows this person well. The next issue is to always do criminal background and credit checks on the person. Churches need also to check with ministers in other denominations in towns where that person may have served. Often these have picked up people who are telling their stories to them. It's another sad chapter in the church not checking as well as it could.

[Mark]

[Big Daddy Weaver]

Matt Baker may have victimized numerous women along the way (including obviously killing his own wife in cold blood). But I'm not willing to buy into the portrayal buy his own ex-mistress, Vanessa Bulls, whose quotes are cited on Christa's blog, as a victim.

The sexual relationship began in March. Baker murdered his wife in April. And the affair continued through June and into July. Bulls was told by Baker that he was going to kill his wife well ahead of time, Bull said and did nothing, Bulls knew he had previously attempted to drug her and again said or did nothing. After the murder, Bulls did not keep quiet. Instead, she lied over and over to police and investigators. She continued her affair and did so in public.

It was not until Tuesday that Bulls finally came clean with the truth. Baker maybe "warped" her mind to some extent. I don't know. Whatever effect Baker had on her, I don't think it absolves Bulls of moral culpability and legal scholars have said that it may not completely absolve her of legal culpability EVEN though she was granted some sort of testimonial immunity.

No doubt that Baker was a skeezy adulterer - even his own lawyer admitted that. I think Baker's background demonstrates the difficulty in dealing with He-Said, She-Said scenarios. I don't think we have enough information available to really determine whether Baylor appropriately handled the original accusations. She said he forced himself on her, groped her, rubbed on her, etc. He of course denied. And then supposedly the girl had made a similar accusation back in high school, I believe. Those who investigated the incident ultimately believe Baker. And he walks.

The details are a bit more fuzzy and FBC Waco. And it does appear that FBC Waco didn't handle the situation appropriately. I'm not sure how many parishioners ever found out about the accusations.

There doesn't seem to be an easy answer, no blue-print on how to proceed. A little more than a year ago now, another Truett student was arrested on the accusations that he assaulted a youth member, similar to the accusations made against Baker while at Baylor. However, charges were never filed because prosecutors determined that the young teen was lying.

The accused minister was not allowed to continue his job upon the accusations and I doubt he'll ever work with youth again even though the accusations turned out not to be true.

[Stephen Fox]

Bdidd:

Your time would be better spent bringing Parham and Vaughn and Common Word to Waco with Charles Kimball than obsessing and doing your own Nancy Grace exploration of this mess.

Where are Joel Gregory, Hankins and Truett on Common Word????

[Dave Roberts]

The mistress obviously turned "state's evidence" in the hope she could get a deal to protect her from serving much or any time for her silence and lies during the investigation. That's an old and familiar story.

[Big Daddy Weaver]

Foxy,

Did you see Common Word? Don't dodge the question again.

I will bring Charles Kimball to campus when you decide to have a detailed discussion with me on some of your past book recommendations.

In the past week alone, I have reread Noll's Scandal of the Evangelical Mind, Larson's Summer of the Gods, Marsh's The Beloved Community and God's Long Summer and currently making progress on Gaustad's The Religious History of America. I now have 80-some odd books left to read in preparation for my exams.

So, when I'm not reading, I do like to play a little Nancy Grace from time to time. I also enjoy a little Hardball with supper and browsing YouTube for parodies/covers of Pants on the Ground!

[William Thornton]

Fox, your comments about CB were gratuitous and rude. She doesn't need my protection from goofballs like you but you should have better sense and better manners. If you want to discuss the issues, do so, but leave off the personal stuff.

[Jonathan]

[Christa Brown]

[Christa Brown]

In fact, that woman who, as a freshman girl, reported Matt Baker to Baylor officials just got through testifying for the sentencing phase of the trial, literally minutes ago. If anyone's actually interested, you can read what she said in the of the trial.

[Christa Brown]

And furthermore, if you look at Matt Baker's statement on that blog of the trial, you'll see that he claimed he couldn't even remember the name of the Baylor official whom he claimed had told him that the girl had made a similar accusation in the past. And yet here we are, to this day, on this Baptist blog, with someone using that reported statement by Matt Baker, who is now a convicted murderer, to effectively call a sexual assault victim into question. Yet, that sexual assault victim was one of the very few people in this whole sordid saga who actually showed some courage.

[Big Daddy Weaver]

[Big Daddy Weaver]

[Sandy]

[Big Daddy Weaver]

Matt Baker was just sentenced to 65 years. *I think* that he will be eligible for parole after serving half of that sentence. He is 38 years old now.

[Christa Brown]

[Mark]

This from today's Houston Chronicle mentions two of the women Matt Baker allegedly molested.

[William Thornton]

[Dave Roberts]

I'm afraid that churches and universities want to protect their own reputations enough to just send someone packing without doing anything to protect the victims. By the time Baker get out of prison at age 70, maybe we will have found a way to accompish what Brown is asking without messing up our Baptist polity. This is indeed a troubling case.

[Stephen Fox]

Maybe Thornton, BDidd and the BL.com Nancy Grace Team can solve this one as well

At a minimum may revise viewings of Billy bob Thornton's
Man who Wasn't there

and the great line

"The Next Day was a Saturday"

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/24/us/24 ... le.html?hp

[Christa Brown]

[Big Daddy Weaver]