Richard Land, Plagiarist

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Re: Richard Land, Plagiarist

Postby Ed Pettibone » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:02 am

Gene Scarborough wrote:The only grace available, it seems to me, is to resign and hope time takes away the stigma of stupidity and arrogance.

He now knows how David felt when confronted with his sin. None of us is perfect----just forgiven.


Ed: Gene I get your point but I believe you analogy is weak. To paraphrase, Land is no King David.
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Re: Richard Land, Plagiarist

Postby Gene Scarborough » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:41 am

Far from such in both our minds----not sure if he sees it that way though!!!!

Pontifications of the past seem to put him just short of the Pope! :wink:
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Re: Richard Land, Plagiarist

Postby David Montoya » Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:00 am

While teaching theology at Criswell College Land read (word for word) "Lectures in Systematic Theology" by Henry Thiessen as if it were his own lecture without giving credit. He also had a class called Cultural Milieu in which he read Stott's book "Your Mind Matters" (again word for word) as his own work without giving credit. This was common knowledge among many of his students.

I would love to get a copy of his dissertation and check it.
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Re: Richard Land, Plagiarist

Postby Gene Scarborough » Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:23 am

Holy Geshitka!!!!! :horse:
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Re: Richard Land, Plagiarist

Postby Gene Scarborough » Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:33 am

Richard Land's latest attempt to gain some favor and forgiveness:

http://www.abpnews.com/content/view/7316/53/

I find it another "blame someone else" kind of attempt.

His SBC buddies are strangely quiet these days and I bet his phone lines are hot with advice though. What might they be saying and hoping because this hot potatoe is growing more volitile in the eyes of the publics.

Meanwhile, "The Tennessean" is giving a public poll opportunity drawing interesting comments:

http://www.tennessean.com/interactive/article/20120419/PROMO/120419007/POLL-Should-Richard-Land-lose-his-job-over-plagiarism-charges-Trayvon-Martin-comments
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Re: Richard Land, Plagiarist

Postby Gene Scarborough » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:35 pm

Louisville's Courier-Journal has the same info on Land --- but here is a page covering many pontifications over recent years from our SBC "good old boy:"

http://blogs.courier-journal.com/faith/?s=%22richard+land%22
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Re: Richard Land, Plagiarist

Postby Sandy » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:12 pm

Dwight McKissic wrote:Blacks are primarily viewed as mission projects, not as mission partners. Inadvertently, Dr. Land opened to us the window of his heart and showed us this painful reality (Mark 7:20-23). The question now is, did Richard Land show us the heart of the entirety of the SBC?


Several decades ago, the SBC engaged in a partnership by setting up a commission that was responsible for the oversight of Cooperative Program funds directed toward the support of the American Baptist Seminary, a predominantly African American school in Nashville, Tennessee. This, and a "fraternal" relationship with the National Baptist Convention, which also involved the sharing of some CP funds, was the public relations demonstration of the SBC's progress in race relations. It was also, as Pastor McKissic says, a demonstration of the fact that blacks were primarily viewed as missions projects, not missions partners.

Most of the progress made in the SBC on this issue since then has happened in the churches first. Ultimately, the denomination, influenced by what was happening at its grass roots, saw the need to publicly apologize for its past attitudes and treatment of African Americans, and made the shift on the denominational level from "mission project" to "mission partners." The door is genuinely open, but it is still early and many of these relationships are still fragile in their trust development. If the ERLC trustees sense that Land's remarks have the potential to damage the future growth of African American involvement in the SBC, they need to let Land go to demonstrate that this is important, and that it is a priority for the SBC.

Dr. McKissic's position has been made clear on his blog, at http://dwightmckissic.wordpress.com/201 ... /#comments.

Land hasn't apologized for the substance of his remarks, from his plagiarized attack on Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson to his accusation that President Obama has used this for his own political purposes. What he's done is say a few words to convince the choir to whom he is preaching not to demand his retirement. The apology for the plagiarism isn't really an apology either. It's more an explanation of how this sometimes happens on a radio program.
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Re: Richard Land, Plagiarist

Postby William Thornton » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:50 pm

This would be a good separate topic but I'm not sure what success in African-American relations would look like for the SBC. I look at the CBF and don't see a lot that looks different.
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Re: Richard Land, Plagiarist

Postby Dave Roberts » Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:41 pm

William Thornton wrote:This would be a good separate topic but I'm not sure what success in African-American relations would look like for the SBC. I look at the CBF and don't see a lot that looks different.


Reality is that 11 o'clock on Sunday morning is still the most segregated hour in America. I'm grateful that in Hampton where I am serving we have a few African-American members, but our progress is slow and thin. True in most denominations, and equally from the side of predominantly African-American churches as well.
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Re: Richard Land, Plagiarist

Postby Neil Heath » Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:55 pm

William is right about this getting way off topic, but I'll throw in my 2 cents and let him move it all to a new topic if he chooses.

Until we see mixed marriages with bi-racial children fully accepted and welcomed into our churches in leadership roles, I don't think we'll know that we've accepted our black brothers and sisters as equals in every way.

Or to quote a common sentiment I've heard among whites: "I don't have anything against black people. I just wouldn't want my child to marry one." This is still true among younger people here in the south. I can't speak for the rest of the country.

I hasten to add I've seen a similar attitudes among some black folks, but I was surprised to find they seemed to be OK with one type of intermarriage--I can't recall whether it was OK for a black man to marry a white woman or the other way around. This came out in an interracial discussion among college students at a conference several years ago, so their feelings might have changed since then. Since it was among students, not adults, I'm not sure the next generation is ready yet either.

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Re: Richard Land, Plagiarist

Postby Gene Scarborough » Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:51 am

Just in from CNN News = a perspect from a black theologian over prejudice and hate:

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/21/americas-angriest-theologian-faces-lynching-tree/?hpt=hp_c2

Cone said his passion for justice comes from growing up in the black church. In his recent memoir, he describes how blacks relied on music and faith to deal with the cruelty of segregation.

On Saturday nights, he said, blacks in his hometown would go to juke joints with names like Sam’s Place to hear blues songs like “Hoochie Coochie Man.” On Sunday mornings, some of the same people would go to church to sing spirituals like “Lord, I Want to be a Christian in My Heart.”

Church comforted Cone, but it also made him ask questions.

“My thing was, if the white churches are Christian, how come they segregate us? And if God is God, why is He letting us suffer?”

The cross, he said, helped him find some answers. He said many white Christians “spiritualize” the cross, seeing it as a penalty Jesus had to pay for mankind’s sins.

But black Christians, starting with the slaves who took up the Bible, also viewed the cross as a way to cope with suffering.

Blacks looking at the images of lynching victims took heart from Jesus’ suffering on the cross and his resurrection, Cone said.


My own conscience was pricked in the 60's when Victor Glass of the HMB brought with him to Ridgecrest during Home Missions Week 2 black ministers he knew from Atlanta. I had been complacent knowing I was not allowed to use the "N" word or disrespect anyone due to my parental training. I had no clue how black men and women felt until those men bravely shared how it felt to be forced to sit on the back of the Atlanta buses and drink from the "colored" drinking fountain.

I think this is at the core of Land's brutal comments despite his position to promote ethics and honesty among SBC churches. HIs lack of caring and conscience in his recent misadventure bespeaks a hard heart and Republican racial bias now permeating much of the current Presidential campaign. Racial hate is far from over---and Land has become a distraction from what Christ advocated with the Samaritans and outcasts of his day.
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Re: Richard Land, Plagiarist

Postby Gene Scarborough » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:55 am

Here is the SBC observations on the Land mess:

http://sbcvoices.com/walking-through-land-mines-a-way-out-a-follow-up-to-the-land-repudiation-post-by-william-dwight-mckissic-sr/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+SbcVoices+%28SBC+Voices%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher

I find the approach far too protective of a man whose time has past---and whose attitudes are destroying any chance of reconciliation with black potential participation in the SBC.

Here is the most significant quote:

I appeal to Brother Bart and Brother David, to please try and understand that if the profile quote goes unchallenged, un-repented of, and not repudiated by the SBC or Dr. Land, then it forever becomes the official position and attitude of the SBC regarding racial profiling. Do we really want that statement to go unchallenged? If so, that statement would be far worse unchallenged than the curse of Ham teaching, that was taught by Dr. Criswell and most SBC preachers before him. That’s where he learned in from. And no one would deny that W.A. Criswell was the single most influential pastor/preacher in the past fifty years in SBC life; Although, Dr. Adrian Rogers would be an honorable mention in the same sentence with Criswell, when it comes to influence and impact upon the SBC over the past fifty years.


Dr. Criswell came to address the SC Legislature during integration and said such racist and embarassing things his Deacons met him at the airport to chastise him. They should have fired him due to all the irregularities and personal mispending of church money at Dallas First. It was a mess, but Chriswell bullied his way through it. God's Kingdom does not advocate a bully nor a hating one----PERIOD!
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SBC Voices and Criswell

Postby Stephen Fox » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:28 pm

Gene:

Here is the definitive story on Criswell, 56 at SC pastor's conference. Randally Lolley's hero Stewart Newman was first to tell me, in the presence of my Dad at Shoney's in Gaffney, S.C. 1977
http://jsr.fsu.edu/Volume10/Freeman.pdf

I think Aaron Weaver is still in good graces at SBC Voices where you and me are non compass Mentis. Maybe Aaron will take a little truth tellin there, not only about Criswell, but Helms and Pressler and Albert Lee Smith.

Now is good time for some truth tellin; and Bryant Wright and Jim Henry ought to help
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Re: Richard Land, Plagiarist

Postby Gene Scarborough » Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:47 pm

Just checked it and Curtis Freeman, my friend at Duke, is the author = totally accurate and hard to dispute!!! :)
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SBC Voices asks another question

Postby Stephen Fox » Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:07 pm

http://sbcvoices.com/whats-wrong-with-t ... +Voices%29

Maybe nobody is reading Giberson and Stephens The Anointed in that Camp
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Re: Richard Land, Plagiarist

Postby Gene Scarborough » Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:29 pm

Here is the heart of the analysis of Criwell's racism by Steward Newman:

It is no shock that some critics failed to take Criswell’s testimony at face value. Stewart
Newman, who followed Criswell at the 1956 evangelism conference, wrote him a letter after his
public statements condemning racism. Newman admitted to having been impressed with the press
reports of Criswell’s change given his previous “posture of eloquent race-baiting.” But he
expressed doubts that the change was as extensive as reported, adding that it is difficult for anyone
to appraise his own views, “especially in the presence of a considerable element of self-esteem.”
Newman noted that the times have changed, and public attitudes have grown more receptive to
social progress brought about “by the blood of many martyrs . . . who have suffered at the
instigation of political demagogues.” He further stated that “prophetic” voices like Criswell were
responsible for falsely assuring these political powers “that the havoc which they perpetuate is the
will of God.” Newman then proposed an alternative possibility: “It may be that you have not really
changed, W. A. Perhaps you are giving yourself credit for having changed when what you are now
doing is what you have been doing very dramatically all the while—namely, telling the people what
they want to hear.” Caught off balance by such a stingingly candid critique, Criswell offered a
vague reply: “It is sort of hard to answer this letter. I do not know what to say. If your purpose is
to help me, may God grant a fulfillment of your desires.”23

Newman may have been more right about Criswell’s “change” than even he understood.
Perhaps with Newman in mind, Criswell alluded in his 1972 unpublished oral memoirs to certain
Southern Baptist academics that took him to task for his 1956 speech. “They should have done it,”
he conceded. After that, Criswell said, “My soul and attitude may not have changed, but my public
statements did.”24 It is a stunning admission that indicates his “change” may have been more a
matter of social decorum than personal conviction. Perhaps it is as hard for an old racist to change
his ways as for a leopard to change its spots. Newman was also right about the changing times.
When Criswell gave his South Carolina speech, the Dallas Independent School District was the
largest segregated school system in the South. By 1967, the Dallas schools had been desegregated, although it would take another 16 years for the courts to work out all the details. Criswell realized
that anti-desegregation was a lost cause and that continuing the fight would only further
marginalize him and the church. He understood that the closed racial membership policy would
cost him more than the presidency of the Southern Baptist Convention. It would have diverted the
church from the mainstream to the vulgar backwaters of Dallas society, and he was not about to
allow that to happen. As late as 1984 Criswell admitted that he was still not enthusiastic about
desegregation. He said, “I’ve had to accommodate my spirit to it, but I still am against some of it,
like busing. The associations you make, you and your family, it has to come out of your heart.” He
learned how to adapt to the culture, but did his “heart” change? Perhaps this question can best be
answered in his own candid yet ambiguous words: “My soul and attitude may not have changed,
but my public statements did.”25

Criswell’s vague confession stands in contrast to the resolution by the SBC on June 20,
1995 on racial reconciliation. Though critics questioned the contrition of the convention and the
lateness of the response, still the messengers left no question about their guilt, declaring that they
“unwaveringly denounce racism, in all its forms, as deplorable sin” and “lament and repudiate
historic acts of evil such as slavery from which we continue to reap a bitter harvest.” The
resolution further offered an apology to all African-Americans for “condoning and/or
perpetuating individual and systemic racism in our lifetime” and repentance for “racism of which
we have been guilty, whether consciously or unconsciously.” The statement asked for forgiveness
“from our African-American brothers and sisters” and pledged to “eradicate racism in all its forms
from Southern Baptist life and ministry.” Ironically, Richard Land, who began his career at Criswell
Institute and had become the executive director of the SBC Christian Life Commission, led the
effort to get the resolution passed.26

W. A. Criswell discerned the political signs of the times more clearly than anyone could
have imagined. He was able to envision the passing of the Dixiecrat politics of the Solid South, and
the emergence of a new conservatism that would fit like hand-in-glove with the New Religious
Right. He later would be hailed as both the godfather of the conservative resurgence of the
Southern Baptist Convention and a spiritual advisor in the southern strategy of the Republican
revolution. Yet what he wanted more than anything was to be the pastor of the largest Baptist
church in the world. His change ensured that would be possible for years to come. Although
Criswell has been described as a man of principle and conviction, he more fittingly personified the
populist conservatism that was shared by many other white Baptists in the South. They resisted
integration in the here and now but were willing to make pragmatic concessions as the social
arrangement of Southern culture changed. For the time being the biblical vision of a racially
reconciled humanity would have to wait. Nevertheless, as Criswell reminded them, “In heaven we’ll
all be together.”


As I see it, Criswell was a racist at heart and pragmatist when it came to church PR and growth.

Is Land following his mentor into 2012 when the possibility exists for a black man to lead the SBC?

Are those same black ministers seeing through the ploy and finding themselves used again for growth in numbers rather than real change in attitude?
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Re: Richard Land, Plagiarist

Postby Ed Pettibone » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:37 pm

Ed: Gene when you write "Are those same black ministers seeing through the ploy and finding themselves used again for growth in numbers rather than real change in attitude?"

What "same black ministers" are you referring to? And of time period(s) are you talking. When I was at SBTS 90 - 92 and Trudy with me tagging along 95-98 we knew many younger students who could not comprehend the racial attitude of even their own fathers and grandfathers generation. Even many of those who where fundamentalist and more so as one moved to the center of the theological spectrum. Some of them are seen in today's bloggers who dare challenge the current leadership on some issues.
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Re: Richard Land, Plagiarist

Postby Gene Scarborough » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:37 am

I am talking of any current black congregation now entertaining the thought of joining the SBC and any black pastors hoping to find a genuine place of acceptance among the elected ranks.

I am a true son of the South with all the prejudices attached---although under control and not to be publically stated. Down here in Bath, NC, we have genuine respect between the races. One of my best friends is a black guy who works for me and has great quality. We talk as brothers in Christ with no color attached.

Richard Land is the same, but has lost control of his tongue in a hostile time.

He obviously does not have the good sense to take off his Republican suspenders nor keep his mouth shut before he incites a riot when the SBC is pretending to accept black congregations.

He is a greater liability than asset and a public action from the SBC is required, like it or not!
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Re: Richard Land, Plagiarist

Postby Ed Pettibone » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:48 pm

Gene Scarborough wrote:I am talking of any current black congregation now entertaining the thought of joining the SBC and any black pastors hoping to find a genuine place of acceptance among the elected ranks.

I am a true son of the South with all the prejudices attached---although under control and not to be publically stated. Down here in Bath, NC, we have genuine respect between the races. One of my best friends is a black guy who works for me and has great quality. We talk as brothers in Christ with no color attached.

Richard Land is the same, but has lost control of his tongue in a hostile time.

He obviously does not have the good sense to take off his Republican suspenders nor keep his mouth shut before he incites a riot when the SBC is pretending to accept black congregations.

He is a greater liability than asset and a public action from the SBC is required, like it or not!


Ed: Gene I agree that Land is a liability to the SBC and if I where still in the SBC I would be calling for his resignation.

And I would call you a son of the "old" south. And I can not speak so much to Bath as it is today, but I well recall folk in many towns in Mississippi in the 60's where the residents claimed "Genuine respect among the races" and that meant "We genuinely respect n------ who know their place and stay in it and they respect that. And I have been surprised, even as far back in the 1990's at the apparent change among many young people in Mississippi but in listening to many seniors it seems most, not all, tolerate the changes but do not enthusiastically embrace them. And most every white guy I ever discussed race relations with has had a Black among his best friends even in the 60's south. But not every black I have discussed the subject with has had a white best friend. This holds true in my experiences in KY, TN, GA, Fl, MO. with family and in VA, NC, & SC with friends.
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Re: Richard Land, Plagiarist

Postby Gene Scarborough » Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:37 am

Ed---

Our biggest problem now in the South is people who use race to advance some political agenda.

With whites, it is the Tea Party. With blacks, it is maximizing government programs for sustinance.

I used to coffee at a Hardee's in Rocky Mount. That town, years ago, distinguished itself with equal parks and other things between the black and white sides of town. The major rail for CSX divides the town and also Edgecombe and Nash Counties. In the 60's, more blacks were on the Edgecombe side and whites on the Nash side. That has changed in the last 20 years and blacks are all over.

However, the Edgecombe side has the hood and it has become crime and drug filled as the economy has taken almost all the industry from Rocky Mount. Most interesting is how black citizens at Hardee's would express their disgust at their side sucking on welfare and refusing to work. Many or them were having to sleep in bath tubs to protect against bullets whizzing through their houses as gangs banged.

Too often, both white and black sides of the equation do not see the value of just being respectful friends despite the color with which you were born. Rocky Mount is now more racially divided than ever over a few City Politicians using race for position.

Down here in little Bath, I detect no such rampant racism. Beaufort County is fairly peaceful with a reasonable degree of crime. Next county over, Pitt, is full of drugs and crime like Rocky Mount. It is more prosperous due to the presence of East Carolina University and the big Medical Center. It is more diversified with industry, but not so divided politically as is Rocky Mount. Their crime issue is most similar and---sad to say---far more crime is perpetuated in the black community and much of it is black on black. A shooting a day is the norm in both Greenville and Rocky Mount.

Each place has it's flavor. The part which is notable is when race is set aside and people do as they please without worrying about the color of their friendships. :)
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Re: Richard Land, Plagiarist

Postby Ed Pettibone » Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:18 am

Gene Scarborough wrote:Ed---

Our biggest problem now in the South is people who use race to advance some political agenda.

With whites, it is the Tea Party. With blacks, it is maximizing government programs for sustinance.

I used to coffee at a Hardee's in Rocky Mount. That town, years ago, distinguished itself with equal parks and other things between the black and white sides of town. The major rail for CSX divides the town and also Edgecombe and Nash Counties. In the 60's, more blacks were on the Edgecombe side and whites on the Nash side. That has changed in the last 20 years and blacks are all over.

However, the Edgecombe side has the hood and it has become crime and drug filled as the economy has taken almost all the industry from Rocky Mount. Most interesting is how black citizens at Hardee's would express their disgust at their side sucking on welfare and refusing to work. Many or them were having to sleep in bath tubs to protect against bullets whizzing through their houses as gangs banged.

Too often, both white and black sides of the equation do not see the value of just being respectful friends despite the color with which you were born. Rocky Mount is now more racially divided than ever over a few City Politicians using race for position.

Down here in little Bath, I detect no such rampant racism. Beaufort County is fairly peaceful with a reasonable degree of crime. Next county over, Pitt, is full of drugs and crime like Rocky Mount. It is more prosperous due to the presence of East Carolina University and the big Medical Center. It is more diversified with industry, but not so divided politically as is Rocky Mount. Their crime issue is most similar and---sad to say---far more crime is perpetuated in the black community and much of it is black on black. A shooting a day is the norm in both Greenville and Rocky Mount.

Each place has it's flavor. The part which is notable is when race is set aside and people do as they please without worrying about the color of their friendships. :)


Ed: So Gene do I understand you right? It seems you are saying that In NC there are no Black Tea Party folk, nor any whites who maximize government programs for sustenance.

When you where going to Hardee's did you ever have their French toast sticks? Back in the days when "Rocky Mont distinguished itself with equal parks and other things between the black and white sides of town. " what where some of those other things. Did the majority which was/is black actually provide equal schools for the whites? And how equal where the median household incomes. In the latest figures I could find they did not give household income by race for NC but I did note that the $38,110 overall in Rocky Mont is $10,064 below the state average.

I see that their former African American Police Chief was on the force from the time he was 20, that would go back to 1980. He is now running for City council (ward 1) at the age of 52. This is a non partisan position. Manley has an outstanding resume for a Police chief in a small city of 58,576.
MPA Degree Central Michigan University, and a BA Degree Criminal Justice, Shaw University, 52 years old, Married 25 years, Graduate of FBI National Academy and UNC Municipal Administration Course.
Is that what you mean by the blacks maximizing government programs for sustenance? And do you have any Idea which part of the city and which county (Ward 1) would be in?
Last edited by Ed Pettibone on Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Richard Land, Plagiarist

Postby Gene Scarborough » Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:33 am

Ed---

Not sure what you are trying to say beyond "I am wrong" and you want to skew my statement to make it appear so.

I said what I observed and you don't live here. You did a lot of research to say basicallly NOTHING.

Use your time more wisely or just state what is going on where you live---that would be a wise response that means something! :)

This last section is so far away from the subject as to be rediculous! :lol:
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Re: Richard Land, Plagiarist

Postby Ed Pettibone » Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:59 am

Gene Scarborough wrote:Ed---

Not sure what you are trying to say beyond "I am wrong" and you want to skew my statement to make it appear so.

I said what I observed and you don't live here. You did a lot of research to say basicallly NOTHING.

Use your time more wisely or just state what is going on where you live---that would be a wise response that means something! :)

This last section is so far away from the subject as to be rediculous! :lol:


Ed: Where did i say you are wrong and how did I skew you statement. I did not do a lot of research I simply googled Rocky Mont, NC and Black Policemen in Rocky Mont. I offered NO opinion on what you had written. I simply asked some questions about what you had said in an attempt to understand your comments. It is true that I do not live in NC but I have stopped in the area of Rocky Mont 2 to 6 nights a year for the past 20 years or more and we still have a Grandson and great Granddaughter in NC, therefore my interest. And gee you didn't even answer me regarding Hardee's French toast sticks. By the way I also noted that Rocky Mont has 869 churches that is one for every 67.5 residents.

But what would you like to know about where I live?

Now I will offer an opinion. You really shouldn't open doors in these boards that you do not want others to walk through.
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Re: Richard Land, Plagiarist

Postby Ed Pettibone » Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:55 pm

Ed: In a previous post G. Scarborough suggested that I "Use your time more wisely or just state what is going on where you live ---that would be a wise response that means something!" I am not sure what it has to do with the current thread but as I said when Gene opens a door I am generally glad to walk through it. And this turns out to be a great day for Gene to ask about this area . The Headline in this morning's Daily Gazette reads "Waterway to open early for historic aircraft. " The Eire canal is closed to to boat traffic in the winter and usually opens on 4/1, but this year it is opening today to accommodate barges bringing three historic aircraft to the Empire State Aerosciences Museum in Glenville (about 4.5 miles down the road St Rt 50 from Burnt Hills).

The three planes are A MIG 15, A Supemarine Scimitar and A Douglas F3D-2 Skyknight which is returning to its home base where it was used in the development of key radar components out of the General Electric Flight Center at Glenville. For the folk a Burnt Hills Baptist church this may be a bit bitter sweet as it is nearly year to late for two gentlemen from our church who had been engineers on that project, however both have passed away in the last year and Trudy did their funerals.

The three planes have been moved here from the Air and Space Museum in NYC to make room at that facility for the Space Shuttle Enterprise which was flown into NY yesterday riding piggy back on a modified Jumbo Jet. You may have seen that on one of the network news shows last evening the three big networks all had stories about it.

To avoid a charge of plagiarism let it be known. Most of this info comes from two stories in this Schenectady Daily Gazette this morning.
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Re: Richard Land, Plagiarist

Postby Gene Scarborough » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:46 pm

Another distraction, Ed!!! :brick:
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