Will electing Fred Luter, a black pastor, fix the SBC House?

[Gene Scarborough]

[Sandy]

I fail to see how this is "covering" anything. The facts cited in the article speak for themselves. The fact that a very traditionally white, Anglo Saxon Protestant denomination is seeing its most rapid growth take place among African Americans and Hispanics says an awful lot about the kind of culture change that is taking place. It puts stereotypes to rest, emphasizes that independence and autonomy among the various entities of Southern Baptist denominational life always bring missions, church planting and the business of being the church back to the forefront when those things are temporarily replaced by secular political interests or personal kingdom building.

This is more or less how the SBC has always operated. All the different convention committees, trustee boards, associational and state convention structures, provide places for the self important to pose, strut, gather an entourage and think of themselves more highly than they ought. It's a big deal in Baptist life to organize, and then make sure you elect officers, so that you can identify who's going to strut and pose, and who is actually going to go do the work. Apparently, a lot of work has been done to plant and strengthen churches made up largely of minority group members, and they now have enough power and influence to elect one of their own as an officer, though I don't see Fred Luter as a strutter or poser.

[William Thornton]

Gene, good topic. I changed the title to highlight the salient issue, electing a black SBC president, Fred Luter. I think it will get more attention.

My opinion:

Were I to be in New Orleans in June, sweltering with the masses, I would vote for Luter. I think he is a good man and would be a good president. I also take him at his word that for the SBC to elect a black man would be a positive move.

One of the SBC's secrets is that about one in six SBC congregations is ethnic, a figure not often reported. Certainly most of the revenues and most of the leadership comes from traditional white churches. While I haven't seen any figures on it, I'd say that most SBC congregations are multi-ethnic to some degree. It is rare for me to attend a church, now that I am retired, where there aren't Latinos, Black folks, or Asians worshipping with me.

[Tim Dahl]

The BGCT has had some "historic" presidents over the past few years. I'm thinking of three off the top of my head: a Female president, a Hispanic president, and an African American president. I'm actually friends with one of them.

To be honest, I haven't seen a bit of difference in how the BGCT does things because of these "historic" presidents. The system is still the system it's been for the past twenty some odd years (imo).

My guess is that having Luter be the president won't make any kind of real "difference" in the power players of the convention. But, it might make for some good PR. I mean, it can't be for nothing that a convention founded because of it's pro-stance towards slavery, ends up having an African American president... right?

Tim

[Sandy]

The last church I served in Houston was SBC to the core, and unanimously voted to affiliate with the SBTC in 2009. It had, among its active membership, a group of older WASP folks in their late 60's, 70's, 80's, a few 90's and at least three in their 100's, who accounted for about 40% of the attendance, a group of non-Spanish speaking families who accounted for another 40% of the active members, but about 90% of the pre-schoolers, children and youth,and the other 20% of the active members being about equally divided between African Americans and Asians, mostly Indians and Chinese. In addition to that, we had a booming Spanish-speaking congregation of about 80 people, and a new African American church plant that grew from 15 to 80 in a matter of eight months.

Electing Luter will go a long way toward putting some of the stereotypes to rest, and toward pointing out that what happens in the SBC, from a church growth/evangelism perspective, is much more a matter of what the churches are doing than it is a result of any kind of denominational initiative or program. Sometimes, those in the denominational headquarters, and those who receive salaries from denominational pocketbooks, are not on the same page as those in the churches. That was certainly the case up until 1979.

While Luter would be the first African American SBC president, I'm not sure that the convention will remain as it is today. There is zero growth, and in fact, actual decline taking place among the predominantly white, predominantly older congregations in the Deep South. The numerical growth, including baptisms, is happening in inner cities in the Northeast, Midwest and West Coast, and among Hispanics in Texas and the Southwest. As this article points out, and as William suggests, the percentage of ethnic members as part of the whole will continue to increase fairly rapidly. While most of them are as theologically conservative as the old Southern whites, their political perspective is much different. That will be a big change. Likewise, the day will come when ethnic minority members represent a significant percentage of SBC support. That will change things.

[Big Daddy Weaver]

It's great to hear about these diverse SBC churches.

Ethnic diversity in SBC churches (even moderate ones) was not my experience in south-middle Georgia. Even not far from William's neck of the woods, I didn't see any ethnic diversity in the small rural churches that I visited one semester while at UGA.

The diversity is somewhat improved in the Waco area. But even where there is Hispanic-Anglo diversity, there's little class diversity. Generally, the diversity is a combo of middle-class whites and middle-class Hispanics. Still, the many more rural churches that I've visited to hear my dad preach were exclusively white.

I agree with alot of what Sandy said. The SBC's best hope is increasing ethnic diversity. At least some leaders including the current President and Frank Page recognize that and have taken steps to increase participation. Up to this point the SBC's diversity has largely been on paper.

I don't see the election of Fred Luter winning over black churches affiliated with historic Baptist denominations. Black Baptists already don't understand Luter's and McKissic's involvement in the SBC. That's been publicly acknowledged.

Any future SBC growth among African-Americans will come through church plants not established churches.

The SBC has also had some success with Asian-Americans. The political perspective is going to need to change if the SBC wants to reach Hispanics. In light of the laws in Arizona and Alabama and other developments, there's increasing tension out there. How do Hispanics in America view the SBC? That would be an interesting survey for Lifeway to conduct.

[Dave Roberts]

I think it's a good thing for the SBC just as was the election of Emmanuel as CBF's moderator. It's a step at least from the 19th century into the 1970's--an event long overdue. CBF has also had Joy Yee representing Asian Americans.

[Sandy]

[Gene Scarborough]

William---thanks for the title change and it is bringing good comment. I did mine in haste as I was leaving for work---and yours is "spot on"=far more accurate.

Good moderation, my brother!

[Big Daddy Weaver]

There's a big difference between attending a conference hosted at Dwight McKissic's church and getting Black Baptist churches to participate in the life of the SBC.

Also, I'm pretty sure that McKissic's church is not fully SBC. He was present for the meeting of the National Baptist Convention USA in 2008. I saw him. Not anyone can attend that meeting; you have to be a delegate sent by an affiliated church. If you remember, when all that brouhaha happened between McKissic-Patterson (which prompted the conference you attended), McKissic wrote a letter to Patterson referring to his "faith tradition" as "National Baptist Convention"

Also, Cornerstone is probably the largest SBC Black Baptist church in the DFW area. But it's not the largest Black Baptist church in DFW. Cornerstone is listed as averaging 2,000 attendance. Frederick Haynes' Friendship-West Baptist Church averages 8,000, New Birth Baptist Church averages 3,000, Concord Missionary Baptist Church averages 3000, and Golden Gate Missionary Baptist Church averages 3,000. All in the DFW area.

Go to Google Books and look up "Uneasy in Babylon." That whole book is available in full-text online. It includes a chapter featuring Fred Luter and other prominent Black Southern Baptists. They discuss openly the attitudes of Black Baptists towards them with regard to their SBC affiliation. McKissic himself has in recent months made reference in his blog posts to this reality that many Black Baptist pastors just don't get why the Fred Luters and Dwight McKissics choose to be associated with the SBC.

[Stephen Fox]

Lot of folks in SBC are not racists. Jim Henry for one has solid track record; and Bob TErry made a good defense of Charles Pickering.
That said Richard Land has never come clean with an examination of the race legacy of Jesse Helms and Paul Pressler. To My knowledge Pressler has never made a George WAllace statement I WAS Wrong in regard his history with Martin Luther King, nor Carlyle Marney for that matter.
So Luter will be a white washing.

Only 14 percent of white evangelicals in Alabama think President Obama is a Christian. Something there awry and SBC is not adequate to explore it. That doesn't mean every SBC Baptist deacon has to sign some politically correct card and vote for President Obama to be redeemed. But deep south states that cannot have a civil conversation about President's Obama's Faith, don't seem to me to be ready to elect a Black SBC President and it be anything other than a minstrel show.

[Sandy]

[Gene Scarborough]

I was a teen in the late 50's and early 60's when integration was such a mess in the South.

The HMB (Home Mission Board) had Victor Glass as the liason person between the National Baptist Convention and the SBC. When Walker Knight advocated for integration in the Home Mission Magazine and featuring the ministry of Victor Glass, the fat hit the fan!!! Not just regular fat, but super heated smelly stuff for all across the SBC!!!

It amazes me now---for the sake of growth---how inviting the SBC has become!

Are we will using black folks to grow our crops of statistical growth?
Can we ever truely welcome them with heart and head?
Every Evangelism Conference and the the Home MIssions Week at Ridgecrest featured a black preacher---whose sermons are always the highlight of the week!!! Put head and heart together and you have a message no white person can deny and black folks love the give lively "Amens" too!!!

[Stephen Fox]

http://www.abpnews.com/content/view/7243/53/

Maybe Obama is a Christian after all, he appears to concede

[Stephen Fox]

Parham and Tennessean calls his latest a "rant"

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/sbc-official ... -cms-19482

[Gene Scarborough]

We are getting away from the main topic, but it shows how Richard Land is not on the beam of racial parity.

This is a form of schizophrenia to me = rejoice in a black pastor running for SBC President / slice up our half-black President of the US.

Land is out of his element and somewhat out of his head, in my view

[Stephen Fox]