Phil Roberts out at Midwestern Seminary

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Re: Phil Roberts out at Midwestern Seminary

Postby Sandy » Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:13 pm

Gene Scarborough wrote:I was there and I didn't see it to the degree you describe. A Pastor leading a church to serious giving to the CP was always considered for leadership BUT is was a widely shared leadership.


Widely shared if you were related to, or had a school or relationship connection to the insiders. There were a number of individuals in SBC leadership who sat on boards and committees continuously, or almost continuously, for over thirty years, some simultaneously with service on state convention committees. When do you have time to pastor your church, when you're spending your time and the denomination's money hobnobbing to meetings?

It's pretty much irrelevant now, but I think the documentation of the rotating trustees has been done by several authors of books on the need for the conservative resurgence.

As to the issue at Midwestern, it's nothing like Lolley's departure at Southeastern. This is related to the way finances have been handled, not to anything theological. Midwestern's financial issues go back well into the era when the pre-79'er good ole boys ran the show. Lolley allowed heresy to be taught in classrooms at Southeastern, and then couldn't defend his position. The subsequent investigation supported the trustee action and restored credibility to a school that Southern Baptists were abandoning in droves.
Last edited by Sandy on Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Phil Roberts out at Midwestern Seminary

Postby Tim Bonney » Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:24 pm

Gene Scarborough wrote:I am glad you found a home in the UMC.


I am too. But don't hear me saying that the UMC is for everyone. It is right for me. And if you were to ever end up preaching in the UMC you'd have to give up your support of local autonomy (Or at least not preach about it in the UMC). It isn't part of United Methodism. Also you have to be prepared to be under supervision. It is an episcopal system and that's the structure that United Methodists believe in. So while I very much support what my new Church teaches there are a lot of Baptists who couldn't fit into the polity in good conscience. I've become a Methodist not a Baptist preaching in the UMC. If you aren't prepared to be Methodist to the core then it might not be a good fit and would like not be very happy.
Last edited by Tim Bonney on Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Phil Roberts out at Midwestern Seminary

Postby Gene Scarborough » Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:00 pm

Sandy:
Lolley allowed heresy to be taught in classrooms at Southeastern, and then couldn't defend his position. The subsequent investigation supported the trustee action and restored credibility to a school that Southern Baptists were abandoning in droves.


Sandy, old boy---you gotta be kidding me! The "abandoning in droves" took place after Lolley was fired. Student numbers decreased by more than half. They came under investigation by SACS over questionable governance by the Trustees. The professors formed a chapter of ATS to protect their own hind parts from such ribald treatment or the Trustees would have moved to oust most of them on the spot.

Lolley was and still is so far from being a heritic that your statement is laughable---and shows only that you don't know the people you accuse of "heresy." I was a student and know the school and its integrity!

This problem is about Midwestern and not SEBTS of the late 80's.

I still don't understand how so many executives chosen as "godly men" to lead institutions and agencies of the SBC have such a poor track record of abuse of executive position and personal use of money given to support missions?
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Re: Phil Roberts out at Midwestern Seminary

Postby Sandy » Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:53 pm

Gene Scarborough wrote:Sandy:
Lolley allowed heresy to be taught in classrooms at Southeastern, and then couldn't defend his position. The subsequent investigation supported the trustee action and restored credibility to a school that Southern Baptists were abandoning in droves.


Sandy, old boy---you gotta be kidding me! The "abandoning in droves" took place after Lolley was fired. Student numbers decreased by more than half. They came under investigation by SACS over questionable governance by the Trustees. The professors formed a chapter of ATS to protect their own hind parts from such ribald treatment or the Trustees would have moved to oust most of them on the spot.

Lolley was and still is so far from being a heritic that your statement is laughable---and shows only that you don't know the people you accuse of "heresy." I was a student and know the school and its integrity!

This problem is about Midwestern and not SEBTS of the late 80's.

I still don't understand how so many executives chosen as "godly men" to lead institutions and agencies of the SBC have such a poor track record of abuse of executive position and personal use of money given to support missions?


My response is over on the Grand SBC Takeover thread--- http://www.baptistlife.com/forums.htm
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Re: Phil Roberts out at Midwestern Seminary

Postby Gene Scarborough » Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:35 pm

Sorry, buddy---

I have just responded to your statment and stand by it because I lived it as I worked with the churchs and Associataion in 1968-70!

Sometimes I wonder what world of Baptists you live in, old buddy! :wink:
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Re: Phil Roberts out at Midwestern Seminary

Postby Gene Scarborough » Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:41 am

Will anyone make a stab at explaining how so many "godly men" have so often landed as the new CEO of some institution or agency and then the finances and decisions get them an ouster by the Trustees?

The normal issues are:

Refusal to listen to subordinates
Taking convention-paid trips involving personal ventures
Financial questions over use of CP money
Missionaries in turmoil on the field with new supervisory structure
BF&M 2000 being used to oust tenured missionaries who were promised nothing applied to them
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