The Grand SBC Takeover/Resurgence Thread

[William Thornton]

It can all go in this topic and run until Jesus comes.

[Bruce Gourley]

[Stephen Fox]

Dr. Thornton, we both know David Miller comments on your blog. Invite him here to a space he does not control to participate.

The most recent update of the poisonous effects has to be the Shorter College situation and its inflection for the Newt Gingrich candidacy for the Presidency of the United States of America.
To that end I hope you will join me--Bruce Gourley and Mercer's Dr. Underwood as well--and see it through the lens of Giberson and Stephens The Anointed.
Also Randall Balmer's review recentlyonline in the Journal of Southern Religion of Williams and Dochuk.

And with Bruce Gourley, welcome back ditto

[William Thornton]

[Stephen Fox]

You know what he said in Slingblade.

This one begat that one and so forth and so on.

It all meshes together.

I think I was pretty much talking Shorter in the Shorter thread. It was others who got off on the resurgence over the weekend while I was in Rome Georgia doing research.

I do hope you can attract Dave Miller here, so he can take on his betters on a subject in which he has so much invested

Hadacol Days on Statham, you got your hands on a copy yet?

[Tim Bonney]

William! Welcome back as a Moderator. You have been missed!

[Gene Scarborough]

To get the ball rolling, I suggest several of the posts from the Shorter thread might be pasted here.

[Gene Scarborough]

[Tim Bonney]

[William Thornton]

Actually, Tim, it is not a jest but sort of like the Global Warming threads. Someone always wants to discuss SBC R/TO here, so, here's the place.

Gene, the recent LifeWay survey about folks' perception of the SBC didn't get to the why of that. I'd guess that SBC R/TO is so much inside baseball to the general public that very, very few are aware.

[William Thornton]

I'll say this publicly:

Stephen, you had better get me (wmg011@gmail.com) off of your family spam email list or I'll ban you here. I've asked you privately several times. I do not want to know anything about your family squabbles.

[Gene Scarborough]

I am seeing more public exposure of SBC hatred of gays and "liberals" along with their stuff at Shorter. In NC we are getting into local papers with the ouster of the DOM near Gastonia and the lady pastor bru-ha-ha up where the Andy Griffith show was depicting the little mountain town--Mt. Airy.

The issue over the FBC Dallas Pastor going overboard with Rick Perry hit the public fan as well. It seems to end up more with local coverage than such nationwide magazines as Time, etc.

The USA Today, at times, has hit on the new SBC craziness as well.

None of the public coverage makes me proud to be a Baptist----and too many people think there is just one brand of Baptist, to their sorrow. We all know Baptists run far and wide, but the public is somewhat ignorant of such.

[William Thornton]

[Gene Scarborough]

Here is an interesting and, in my opinion, balanced a view of this topic from John Pierce, no less!

[Sandy]

[Tim Bonney]

[William Thornton]

[Tim Bonney]

[Gene Scarborough]

Since we are talking about Baptist battles, Tim---can U tell us what is going on with any tension in the UMC?

I was aware of Wilmon being a fundamentalist agitator some years back in the UMC. Didn't Southern Methodist do some splitting in the 60's?

[Gene Scarborough]

This could go in several places, but with the takeover discussion, it applies to its aftermath with current CBF activities in NC:



Of particular note is the description of the Mt.Airy situation resulting from Associational Takeover in NC.

[Gene Scarborough]

[Tim Bonney]

[Gene Scarborough]

I agree that we shouldn't get far afield of the thread topic, but I thought the question was a good one for UMC activities.

It was Wildman who made serious turmoil along the same lines as the Conservative Resurgence folks in Baptistland.

I was at Hartsville, SC, in the early 70's. We had a Southern Methodist church at the fringe of town and, as I reacall, they were opposed to most things UMC. Around this area, once in a while, I see another one. I presume that is an un-recognized branch of Methodism.

At the same time, in Hartsville, there was an Independent Baptist Church with a Liberty University / Bob Jones background. This pertains to the thread and the history of Independent Baptists who have been on the fringes of the SBC for many years. Their spirit of fundamentalism was also part of many participating SBC churches---more so in Texas and the Midwest. The further west you went, the more conservative/fundamentalist many churches/people were.

With respect to seminaries there were slight differences. New Orleans was noted as quite conservative. Southern was pretty much middle-of-the-road. Southeastern was taged as liberal. Frankly, much was in the mind of the beholder more than the reality of the school. The scales were leaning conservative in each. In my experience, none was left of center.

I was at SEBTS 1967-70, I found it to be a collection of professors mostly teaching good solid material and challenging us to deal with it. Leo Green, for example, was always giving a conservative slant to his lectures. On the other hand, Marc Lovelace was fond of pointing out how the archaelolgical record did not support a universal flood, if you want to call that "liberal."

A fellow classmate of mine is fond of his role in bringing conservatism back. He claims SEBTS was "liberal." Again, it is a matter of personal observation with blinders on, in my view. That same man was pastoring a conservative church in Rocky Mount and doing his best to get fellow conservatives into every church which became vacant. He was instrumental in forming a pastor's meeting outside the Associational one. Further, he was always after our DOM because he lusted after the job and didn't get it. He was part of a group which tried to get churches to quit giving to the Association. That shortfall in funding eventually led to the resignation of a good fair and balanced man who never meddled in local church business. When asked for any candidates for a pulpit, he always gave the entire folder to a church. It contained candidates of all stripes. His only advice was that he did not personally know the candidates and the church should check them out carefully.

What troubles me most in all the "Battle for the Bible" was the conscious manipulation of what used to be a far-less-political process in all matters. Paige Patterson was a master of manipulation and led in the Takeover. He and Paul Pressler worked tirelessly in Texas and surrounding states to convince average church members and pastors that the SBC was going liberal and must be stopped---whatever it took. W.A. Criswell, a flaming fundamentalist, taught him well about the structures and possible ways to manipulate it toward conservatism.

The "whatever it took" part is my concern. Lies were told / votes were manipulated / dirty tricks were performed. They seemed to have little or no conscience as long as it benefited their cause and purpose. For me it was "doing the 'right' thing for the wrong reason." God will be their judge and they must live with it as best they can.

[Tim Bonney]

OK, I did a little research. There was a small contingent of Southern Methodists who didn't go along with the 1939 merger and form the Southern Methodist Church. There are just 99 churches in the denomination. Wildmon was ordained in 1960 and was only in the UMC ministry until 1977 when, apparently, he left the itinerancy.

With this I'm starting another thread. Lets post there.

[Gene Scarborough]

Tim,

Thanks for the details. I was always curious and assume the Southern Methodists are somehow tied together.