Shorter College chills the Air

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Cokie Roberts coming to Shorter

Postby Stephen Fox » Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:51 pm

http://rn-t.com/pages/full_story/push?c ... d=17682416

I understand her to be a friend of the Baptist Joint Committee. Would be grand if some questions are asked about the Nelson Price Tragedy at Shorter
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Re: Cokie Roberts coming to Shorter

Postby Ed Pettibone » Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:11 am

Stephen Fox wrote:http://rn-t.com/pages/full_story/push?content_instance=17682416&need_to_add=true&id=17682416

I understand her to be a friend of the Baptist Joint Committee. Would be grand if some questions are asked about the Nelson Price Tragedy at Shorter


Ed: Steve look again at the story to which you linked Veteran political journalist Cokie Roberts to speak at Berry College. Why should she be asked any thing about Shorter? I think you will find her more inclined to focus on successes and and possibilities than on events such as the Shorter disaster. I have a notion that she has become a veteran journalist by by picking her battles wisely.
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Here is how Nelson Price's world is playing in Gads Bama

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:42 pm

and Why Shorter is poisoning the region. Ed must not be following the GOP Primary race and how the social issues are a constant. Nelson Price for the informed is key player in the Mohler/Land/Rove strategy to build the base to get them to the polls to continue Pressler's Exxon run with the tax breaks and that is why a well articulated question to Cokie in Shorter's Back yard at Berry will be sublime.

Meanwhile 45 miles west in Gadsen here is a reply to my letter of March 1

http://www.gadsdentimes.com/article/20120301/NEWS/120309986/1044/OPINION?Title=LETTER-Release-time-schools


http://www.gadsdentimes.com/article/201 ... me-schools
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Re: Here is how Nelson Price's world is playing in Gads Bama

Postby Ed Pettibone » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:32 pm

Stephen Fox wrote:and Why Shorter is poisoning the region. Ed must not be following the GOP Primary race and how the social issues are a constant. Nelson Price for the informed is key player in the Mohler/Land/Rove strategy to build the base to get them to the polls to continue Pressler's Exxon run with the tax breaks and that is why a well articulated question to Cokie in Shorter's Back yard at Berry will be sublime.

Meanwhile 45 miles west in Gadsen here is a reply to my letter of March 1

http://www.gadsdentimes.com/article/20120301/NEWS/120309986/1044/OPINION?Title=LETTER-Release-time-schools


http://www.gadsdentimes.com/article/201 ... me-schools


ED: Fox,, I think you give Shorter far to much credit for political influence. Their are worse influences in the region Steve.
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Major front Page story in April 1 Rome News Trib

Postby Stephen Fox » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:18 pm

Update on Shorter; questionairre shows faculty very unhappy with Nelson Price direction for the school

http://rn-t.com/view/full_story/1807326 ... st_popular

Lot of new comments on this Sunday front page story.
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Re: Shorter College chills the Air

Postby Gene Scarborough » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:55 pm

Fundies and brains always clash!!! :wink:
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Re: Shorter College chills the Air

Postby Neil Heath » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:58 am

John Pierce lays out things quite well in his latest blog dealing with Shorter and fundamentalism. Don't have the link handy but it's at the Baptists Today web site.
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Re: Shorter College chills the Air

Postby William Thornton » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:15 pm

A Short(er) Course in Understanding Fundamentalism

I'd take most of his points. I find some of the people and things hard to stomach at times.

He does ask this, “Won’t someone step in and put a stop to this madness?”

Speaking of madness, or of diabolical maneuvers, it shouldn't be forgotten that former Shorter trustees created a sham entity and transferred school assets to it in a failed attempt to literally steal the school from Georgia Baptists. That didn't work although I would guess that the attempt itself escalated the enmity. My friend John Pierce, whom I owe a free lunch, and who is the most sensible, clear sighted moderate that I know, forgot to mention this.

The GBC is pouring money into the school because after all, it is now our school and we have to make it work. I am not convinced that it is money well spent.
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Re: Shorter College chills the Air

Postby Dave Roberts » Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:54 pm

William Thornton wrote:A Short(er) Course in Understanding Fundamentalism

I'd take most of his points. I find some of the people and things hard to stomach at times.

He does ask this, “Won’t someone step in and put a stop to this madness?”

Speaking of madness, or of diabolical maneuvers, it shouldn't be forgotten that former Shorter trustees created a sham entity and transferred school assets to it in a failed attempt to literally steal the school from Georgia Baptists. That didn't work although I would guess that the attempt itself escalated the enmity. My friend John Pierce, whom I owe a free lunch, and who is the most sensible, clear sighted moderate that I know, forgot to mention this.

The GBC is pouring money into the school because after all, it is now our school and we have to make it work. I am not convinced that it is money well spent.


William, I am convinced that denominational colleges were largely regarded as our step-children until the Takeover. For 1 to 5% of their total budgets, Baptists demanded a certain level of control, sent a pittance of money, and sent their children there often with the assertion, "Don't let your education corrupt what you have learned in church." That love/hate relationship has not served us well. Now, the effort at total mind-control is doomed to certain failure. Our Catholic friends learned this in the Inquisition. Guess we Baptists are slow learners.

The distancing of institutions from the parent bodies really began in the 1950's when Wake Forest moved from its links to NC Baptists. The University of Richmond followed in the 1960's, and most Baptist hospitals now have very little to do with their denominational bodies having cut those ties back in the 1960's or 1970's. The struggles over control were exacerbated by the Takeover, and I don't know the Shorter history so I can't really comment on it or on how its governing documents were written. One of the reasons CBF has not tried to create such institutions is that this is a niche market aimed at the kids of rich Baptists. These schools began as educational opportunities availabe to the masses of Baptists as fairly reasonable costs. Now they are priced outside the realm of most ministers' children and a large segment of Baptists
laypeople as well.
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Re: Shorter College chills the Air

Postby William Thornton » Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:29 pm

Dave, I've often heard the argument put forth about the small percentage of GBC (or other state convention) contributions to the total for the school. I've never found that to be a persuasive legal argument for removing the school from its legal owners, although in cases of the top Baptist (or ex-Baptist) schools (Furman, Mercer) it is sufficient for me to have voted to part ways.

The smaller Baptist colleges like Shorter, Truett-McConnel, and Brewton-Parker here in GA require a lot more from the GBC. I'm not convinced it is a great way to spend millions nor a great place to get an education. Here in GA any decent student can get a free tuition ride at the state schools through the lottery. I don't see any great advantage to spending tens of thousands just so they can attend a Baptist school and get an inferior education.

Just my humble opinion...
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Dowles and the Night Owl

Postby Stephen Fox » Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:31 pm

Don responded to the Integrity Committee in yesterday's http://www.rn-t.com .You can read that article and the 103 comments and counting including the Night Owl.

And here is a link from the thread, a recent resignation from human resources at Shorter

or google Carol Atkins letter to the Rome News Tribune or find it in letters at rn-t.com
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Save Our Shorter Blog

Postby Stephen Fox » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:46 pm

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Re: Shorter College chills the Air

Postby Dave Roberts » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:31 pm

William Thornton wrote:Dave, I've often heard the argument put forth about the small percentage of GBC (or other state convention) contributions to the total for the school. I've never found that to be a persuasive legal argument for removing the school from its legal owners, although in cases of the top Baptist (or ex-Baptist) schools (Furman, Mercer) it is sufficient for me to have voted to part ways.

The smaller Baptist colleges like Shorter, Truett-McConnel, and Brewton-Parker here in GA require a lot more from the GBC. I'm not convinced it is a great way to spend millions nor a great place to get an education. Here in GA any decent student can get a free tuition ride at the state schools through the lottery. I don't see any great advantage to spending tens of thousands just so they can attend a Baptist school and get an inferior education.

Just my humble opinion...


William, I see this as one of the struggles about institutionalizing Baptist life. I believe the colleges served well for many years among Baptists, but they may have become an unaffordable luxury for many Baptists. I am the product of a Baptist college (Carson-Newman, TN), and the issue of the percentage of Baptist contributions was an issue in the 1960's because of the TN Baptist Convention's demand for 100% control against the fact that their contribution then amounted to less than 5% of the college budget. That is an issue that didn't matter as much when education was cheaper and more available to the average Baptist family. I felt that I received a first-rate education and have never felt that I was deprived in my engagement with those who graduated from much larger institutions in the same time period. At the same time, I am well aware that denominational schools, in most cases, are not able to duplicate the scientific research possiblities offered by well-endowed institutions.

When our son reached college age, we explored Baptist schools a bit and found that it was virtually impossible for him to attend one without incurring a major debt load. He attended a state university, missed some of the camaraderie of the denominational system, but was able to graduate debt free and, with help for which we are very grateful, was able to complete seminary also without being deeply in debt. He would have been on student loans of a much higher level if he had attended a denominational school.

I think that some of the struggle for governanace today rests in financing. The primary job of college presidents seems to have become that of fund raising. When alumni and foundations become the primary contributors to institutions, they demand that the provincialism and denominational ghetto mentality be dropped from the curriculum and replaced with a broader outlook. Shorter may get a short-term gain in its present shift, but I doubt that it will be a long-term one.

CBF has deliberately avoided becoming the owner of denominational institutions for the very reasons you have cited about those being the best stewardship of resources. My suspicion is that all denominational colleges might fare better and the denominations might accomplish more to invest more heavily into student work and less heavily into institutions in the 21st century.
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Re: Shorter College chills the Air

Postby Gene Scarborough » Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:35 pm

I have witnessed far too many Baptist State Conventions when a red-faced angry conservative preacher gets on institutions which get a small percentage of their budget from that convention and wanting to control students.

Hey, those institutions get what that idiot preacher sends to them and the students are tired of their SS religion and just want to spread their intellectual wings and not go to chapel services!

Shorter is but one of many wanting to avoid the scuffle---and they didn't make it in time! :oops:
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Tough look at Bad Religion

Postby Stephen Fox » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:10 pm

If Nelson Price were trying to navigate this thicket, odds are even worse against him

http://www.tnr.com/book/review/bad-reli ... ss-douthat
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Mass Exodus

Postby Stephen Fox » Wed May 09, 2012 3:35 pm

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Three strikes policy for Dowles and Price

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri May 11, 2012 12:38 pm

Wouldn't this be sweet, little progressive Afghanistan work for Shorter

http://www.npr.org/2012/05/10/152349997 ... -preachers

See the SOShorter site for May 9 testimonial of a resigning tenured proff
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Floyd County to Boycott Shorter?

Postby Stephen Fox » Sat May 12, 2012 7:13 pm

May 12, at Save our Shorter dot com; Calling on the Rome Community and it public facilities, Barron Stadium in particular where the Shorter Hawks play football; to boycott Shorter.
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Re: Floyd County to Boycott Shorter?

Postby Ed Pettibone » Sun May 13, 2012 2:53 pm

Stephen Fox wrote:May 12, at Save our Shorter dot com; Calling on the Rome Community and it public facilities, Barron Stadium in particular where the Shorter Hawks play football; to boycott Shorter.


Steve why not post that as a link? I tested this and it works www.google.com/search?q=SaveourShorter. ... =firefox-a
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SOShorter

Postby Stephen Fox » Wed May 16, 2012 1:03 pm

www.saveourshorter.com is linked in a story today at www.abpnews.com . And at the SOS site great well researched article up today about Shorter's History with the GBC.
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Forrest Lanier's son on Shorter

Postby Stephen Fox » Wed May 16, 2012 3:51 pm

John Lanier's most recent statement up at saveourshorter.com

Forrest was pastor of Bull Street BC in Savannah and FBC Rome before becoming an 80's administrator at Shorter.

Here is my response to Lanier's column

John: I had a brief but memorable conversation with your Dad once talking about the Birch Society, which shares deeply I'm convinced in the shaping of Nelson Price ideology as it did Paul Pressler, his more the Texas Regulars. As you remember Bill Moyers himself called Pressler on it and Pressler walked off the set of the PBS documentary.
For Sure this Tea Party element is at the root of everything foul about what is happening at Shorter. I hope you will straightaway get a copy of Harold Bloom's The American Religion; and Giberson and Stephens The Anointed.
I have recommended The Anointed ad nauseam, but it is a must read for the SaveourShorter community.
When the SBC fundamentalists took over Bill Self and Randall Lolley and my Dad's Beloved SEBTS in 87, Bill Friday then chancellor of UNC System told Cecil Sherman it was the most significant event in the state of N.C. the decade of the 80's. Cause the Pressler faction, incarnated in Jesse Helms knew that with SEBTS they had access to every hamlet and suburb in the state of N.C. through a head turn in the pulpit; and here we are.
Fight these illegitimate fundamentalists at Shorter. With the civility of John Pierce's recent column about those good folks in the pew still confused, fight characters like Dowles and Price; cause as the Apostley Paul and the Apostle Forrest Lanier said, it is a good fight.
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Shorter Resistance gutting up For SACS Review

Postby Stephen Fox » Sun May 20, 2012 4:23 pm

Here ismy comment on the latest post at www.saveourshorter.com

I like the focus of the statement, similar to the aspect of the matter Pierre Noth centered on in the RN-t last fall.
A lot has been written recently on the "parallel universe" fundamentalist institutions have sought to justify, using faux science and ideology as if it were an adequate alternative to a true liberal arts education.
Mark Noll of Notre Dame is great on this matter, pointing out in America's God it was the likes of Abraham Lincoln, Emily Dickinson and Walt Whitman that finally blasted away the fundamentalist juggernaut, the Biblical literalists that had propelled The United States to Civl War
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James Evans perfectly address the Shorter Miasma

Postby Stephen Fox » Tue May 22, 2012 12:52 pm

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Saveourshorter playing Hardball

Postby Stephen Fox » Tue May 29, 2012 6:29 pm

Check their site today and check it weekly. Making a very strong case for SACS and I am glad they are

www.saveourshorter.com
"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
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Re: Shorter College chills the Air

Postby Gene Scarborough » Wed May 30, 2012 4:29 pm

Stephen---

SEBTS faculty tried to save their hides with SACS. It failed. This will fail as well. Fundies have a one track mind = to conquer and control :(

Move on and rejoice that we do have options in American Education!
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