They Finally Got Him?

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Re: They Finally Got Him?

Postby Alan Carter » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:40 pm

Obviously we disagree about our views on pedophiles. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on go on from here. Have a good day brother...
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Re: They Finally Got Him?

Postby Haruo » Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:54 pm

Well, I'm not sure if I do disagree with you, since you haven't given anything clear to go on to compare my views to. But I agree that it appears to be pointless to keep asking you for something you aren't willing to provide. May the Lord go with you to show you whatever it is you cannot yet see. ;-)
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Re: They Finally Got Him?

Postby Ed Pettibone » Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:56 pm

Alan Carter wrote:All Southern Baptists should be rejoicing now that they have finally gotten this pedophile. Of course it is for crimes committed over 30 years ago but it still works.

I would sure enjoy hearing Jack Graham's explanation of why he didn't call the police in Texas and let him get away.

Even more interesting would be to hear what "gratification of lust" actually is. I thought that's what happened in Baptist youth groups on their trips to Six Flags.


Ed: Most here are aware that i am no fan of Jack Graham, however reading through the additional ABP stories attached to the current story. I note Graham hardly had his feet on the ground at Prestonwood when this "allegation" was brought forth in 1989, and it seems that the "Executive Pastor" , some one other than Graham, was the one who asked for and accepted his resignation. And note that in a more recent case of a similar nature Graham did take appropriate action. And as for the Amy Smith who is quoted as saying that "the church" (no one person specified) accepted the resignation and told the purported offender to leave town, if she knew of a crime having been committed and that it had been reported to the authorities by no one else why did she not report it ? No citizen is exempt from from reporting a crime. True pastors and some other professionals are listed in the laws of most states but this does not excuse the rest of us. Seems the mote in ones own eye parable has some application here. Keep in mind most of us have learned a lot more about clergy sexual abuse than we even dreamed of in 1989.

My problem with Alan's "Pedophiles don't ever stop" statement is that it denies that we serve a miracle working GOD.
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Re: They Finally Got Him?

Postby Gene Scarborough » Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:20 am

This issue of immoral behaviour should have been cared for under the simple requirement that followers of Christ live a moral life. The trouble with too many churches and pastors is that they want no trouble and value it over the cries of a child molested. They have turned their heads in the favor of appearance of perfection no one has.

Jack Graham is the Pastor and his Staff and church should have acted if he would not. There is no need to blame it on law enforcement. Blame it on hubris and a diverted mind to numbers attending over care for those participating in ANY church.
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Re: They Finally Got Him?

Postby Alan Carter » Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:35 am

Jack Graham was totally responsible for not reporting the incident to the police whether he had just gotten there or not. The sad thing is that the current Executive Pastor, Mike Buster, is left with trying to explain why Jack did what he did. Typical of behavior at Prestonwood.

I do find it interesting that everyone is so quick to pronounce pedophiles "healed" and "delivered" and "changed." How many of these changed pedophiles do you actually know and how many of them have you hired at your church?
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Re: They Finally Got Him?

Postby Ed Pettibone » Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:05 am

Alan Carter wrote:Jack Graham was totally responsible for not reporting the incident to the police whether he had just gotten there or not. The sad thing is that the current Executive Pastor, Mike Buster, is left with trying to explain why Jack did what he did. Typical of behavior at Prestonwood.

I do find it interesting that everyone is so quick to pronounce pedophiles "healed" and "delivered" and "changed." How many of these changed pedophiles do you actually know and how many of them have you hired at your church?


Ed: Who here had pronounced any particular pedophile "healed" and "delivered" and "changed"? I do know one fellow who served time for child molestation, who I would be willing to hire where we where in the same geographic area and I was in the position to do so. But by what logic was Graham "totally responsible" for not reporting the allegation to the police. BTW, do you have a copy of Grantham's job description.

And Alan tell me do you believe GOD has the power to change people?
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Re: They Finally Got Him?

Postby Haruo » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:56 pm

Yeah, I haven't seen anybody here being "quick" to pronounce any particular set of child molesters "healed", "delivered" or "changed". Neither lepers nor leopards can change their spots; God can, and chooses to do so more often with lepers than with leopards. "Child molesters never change" is a subset of "Sinners never change", but we all know that God does change sinners. (And sometimes does so in this life, right before our eyes, or maybe even in our very persons.) God relieved me, at a critical juncture, of my desire (and even my willingness) to drink alcoholic beverages. Many of my fellow alcoholics do not receive that relief, and I do not know why. And although I hope that the relief will last forever and I will die sober, I know plenty of people who seemed to have "got it" yet subsequently, sometimes after more than a decade of sobriety, relapsed. And I assume, for lack of anything better to do, that pedophilia is in some ways analogous to alcoholism.

Ed, can you expand upon the reasons that would lead you to hire a convicted (former) child molester to work in your church? What about that case differs from the run of the mill?
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Re: They Finally Got Him?

Postby JamesK » Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:17 pm

Alan Carter wrote:Pedophiles don't ever stop so I imagine they can find some more victims if they just keep looking. Too bad the courts in Texas can't prosecute Jack Graham for doing nothing.


You are wrong. Some pedophiles do stop. For some reason this is very emotional to you and I hope you can come to a point where you can look at this factually. I am not supporting putting a pedophile with children, if for no other reason the safety and/or sanity of all involved.

I refuse to limit what God can do in a persons life, no matter what a group of educated people or their books say.

I'd give references to support my claim but it seems there is not a need to do that for you.

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Re: They Finally Got Him?

Postby Haruo » Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:53 pm

A reference or two would be welcome, still, JamesK, for me and perhaps others even if Alan remains a fan of research by Google.
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Re: They Finally Got Him?

Postby JamesK » Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:00 pm

Haruo wrote:A reference or two would be welcome, still, JamesK, for me and perhaps others even if Alan remains a fan of research by Google.


Haruo - Don't have any references - just posted to make a point to Allen. I hope he sees and understands it. If he had stated up front this was his opinion or changed his position to such, it would be easier to talk about.

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Re: They Finally Got Him?

Postby Ed Pettibone » Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:34 pm

Haruo wrote:Yeah, I haven't seen anybody here being "quick" to pronounce any particular set of child molesters "healed", "delivered" or "changed". Neither lepers nor leopards can change their spots; God can, and chooses to do so more often with lepers than with leopards. "Child molesters never change" is a subset of "Sinners never change", but we all know that God does change sinners. (And sometimes does so in this life, right before our eyes, or maybe even in our very persons.) God relieved me, at a critical juncture, of my desire (and even my willingness) to drink alcoholic beverages. Many of my fellow alcoholics do not receive that relief, and I do not know why. And although I hope that the relief will last forever and I will die sober, I know plenty of people who seemed to have "got it" yet subsequently, sometimes after more than a decade of sobriety, relapsed. And I assume, for lack of anything better to do, that pedophilia is in some ways analogous to alcoholism.

Ed, can you expand upon the reasons that would lead you to hire a convicted (former) child molester to work in your church? What about that case differs from the run of the mill?


Ed: Hauro, I hope it will suffice for me to say because knowing the individual and believing that he was actually the victim in the one and only recorded case of his being involved in sexual activity with a minor. I will add folk here need to look at the definition of Pedophlias as presented here; The International Classification of Diseases (ICD) defines pedophilia as a "disorder of adult personality and behavior" in which there is a sexual preference for children of prepubertal or early pubertal age. According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), pedophilia is a paraphilia in which a person has intense and recurrent sexual urges towards and fantasies about prepubescent children and on which feelings they have either acted or which cause distress or interpersonal difficulty. As for the individual that I could recommend ( as I have said, I have no authority to hire any one) I can not in good conscience go in to any further detail than to say he displays none of the highlighted characteristics.
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Re: They Finally Got Him?

Postby Gene Scarborough » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:13 pm

It's real simple: "If anyone should harm one of these children of mine, he should have a millstone tied around his neck and cast into the middle of the sea."

And who said this??????
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Re: They Finally Got Him?

Postby Ed Pettibone » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:37 pm

Gene Scarborough wrote:It's real simple: "If anyone should harm one of these children of mine, he should have a millstone tied around his neck and cast into the middle of the sea."

And who said this??????


Ed: The same as he who said "let he with is without sin cast the first stone. "
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Re: They Finally Got Him?

Postby Gene Scarborough » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:41 pm

So which do you choose my curmudgeon brother????
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Re: They Finally Got Him?

Postby Haruo » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:56 pm

Allow me to pick a nit. It's not that he "should" have a millstone around his neck etc., but that "it would be better for him if" he had one etc. etc. Thanks~
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Re: They Finally Got Him?

Postby Gene Scarborough » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:45 am

Good observation----appropriate totally accurate rendition---I agree!!!

So does Jesus believe in Capital Punishment for those who hurt both physical and spiritual children????

Or, perhaps, they punish themselves with sin far more than a millstone around their neck!

Either way, sin and ministry have no place in the same room of an ordained person's life. Any minister on any staff, whether Senior or Junior, is headed for Hell if he knows it and ignores it. They certainly create hell for the abused and used person having an affair with them.

Hell lasts for eternity while the struggle to breath while sinking to the bottom of the sea is about 4 minutes.
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