Time to stop talking and start action on the SBC name change

[KeithE]

[William Thornton]

I'm underwhelmed by the recommendation and will blog about it in a few days.

While I understand that there are not a few here who have some ire at the SBC, it's a stretch to make something sinister or arrogant out of the choice of GCB as the new a/k/a for the SBC. "Great Commission" is merely the favored phrase of the last few years, sort of like "Bold Mission" was thirty years ago.

[Dave Roberts]

Seems an exercise of rearranging the deck chairs. I don't see that either helping or hurting the SBC. It's what's on the inside that will count.

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: It is time to change the sign at our building. I am thinking of putting putting up ABC -USA are decedents of the original Great Commission Baptist


Ed: And William I truly wish I thought you where right but Bold Mission was a call to "our own" to get about what Jesus had commanded. Here they are claiming to be a convention of something that few of their churches really are. Do you really think they are not attempting to position themselves as different than "other Baptist".

I am not real sure what to do, because I am angry about this. Will be meeting at noon with a group of ABC pastors maybe they will cool me off.

The name has a redundancy that bothers me. And as I suggested in my prior post I see it as a slap in the face of all other Baptist and I am reluctant to turn the other cheek.

[Gene Scarborough]

William---

I will look forward to more details of your thinking about the proposed name change.

I think, at their core, the SBC knows it is in bad trouble and has not distinguished itself after kicking out all the "evil moderates." They have continued their actions of fussing and fighting. They have had more than enough scandals over use of mission money.

The change is far in the past now and, as I said long ago: "You stole the bus, now put the gas in the tank!"

[William Thornton]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Haruo]

I don't assume that "American Baptist Convention >> Churches" was adopted in an effort to minimize or deny the Americanness of dozens of other Baptist groups in the USA, so on simple Golden Rule grounds I have to hold off on assuming that "Great Commission Baptists" is intended to disparage the mission work of ABC, or even CBF/Alliance.

[Gene Scarborough]

Has there been any explaination of why "Great Commission" is being used as opposed to some other term?

Baptist alone covers a lot of territory and is used all around the world for people who believe in immersion. Sometimes it refers to somewhat agitating "outside the mainstream" people who can tell you more about what they are against then what they are for.

As I grew up, there was a sense of spiritual superiority to other kinds of Christians. One study course even cited how we could trace ourselves to John the Baptist. I was a teenager and that really gave me a thrill of superiority.

Are we a bunch of inferiority complex people seeking higher ground since the Episcopalians seem to own the cotton mills and other rich stuff? My daddy warned the worst Baptist churches could usually be run by mill workers who were told what to do during the week and then could put their hatred of leadership on the Preacher.

[William Thornton]

"Great Commission" was used, I speculate, because it is the current, favored buzz phrase, a la "Great Commission Resurgence."

I'll explain it all to you Thursday on my blog in blinding bursts of brilliant insight along with phenomenally clever commentary.

[Stephen Fox]

Was nominated to Honor Alumnus at University of S.C. He is dropping the ball on his watch not to confront the world of SBC Fundamentalism as portrayed in the www.tnr.com Mark Noll review of God's Own Party and Bible Belt to Sunbelt.

Karl Rove is orchestrating the SBC through Richard Land for Pressler's Oil Interests to the tune of 13 million dollars. Six oilmen from Houston put up that much money for Rove's American Crossraods and a name change want fix that; and any other whitewashing of the SBC of the last 40 years stands in the Damnnation Judgment of a Just and All Mighty God

I believe that; More later.

[Stephen Fox]

[William Thornton]

[Stephen Fox]

Two of the most respected bloggers left in the SBC

Dr. Thornton, I could not find your thoughts at Forbes.

I did comment on Howell's blog on the name change.

http://fromlaw2grace.com/2012/02/20/sbc ... ment-10426

Here is a name for you. Larry McCarthy. With me look for Karl Rove's and Richard Land's take on him It's not gonna happen and that is the travesty of the SBC Name Change.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012 ... ntPage=all

Fodder for this thread and deserving of it's own discussion in Public Policy Forum. Richard Land may be the Anti Christ if you hold him up to Marilyn Robinson's take on Bonhoeffer. Between the foolishness of Timothy George's Judson Lecture and Richard Land's War on Faith with Sean Hannity last Friday night, something is stinking badly in the world of Southern Baptists

[Stephen Fox]

http://www.religiondispatches.org/archi ... onvention/

Harvey is looped in with Dan Williams, and Steven Miller and Joe Crespino.

Now we're gettin to the heart of this name change.

And spot on.

If Heaven ain't a lot Like Dixie, Pressler and Nelson Price don't want to go
If they don't have folks of color serving
And the Grand Ole Opry
Like they do in Tennessedamnsee
They just as soon stay home.

No disrespect to the Grand Ole Opry; just happens to be part of the Hank Jr. song.

[Tim Bonney]

[Gene Scarborough]

Tim---

I like the way you organized the basics of following Christ! It is hard, but simple.

Is this part of the Methodist tenants of the faith required of each ordained clergy for acceptance?

For Baptists is has been based on some "belief" rather than some activity of following and living. Our stuff pales in comparison to the depth and wisdom of what you cite.

The simple basics I was taught in Baptistland were: Baptism by immersion / Bible is God's Word / Jesus is our criterion of faith / we band together in giving to the Cooperative Program / Matthew 28:19-20 is our marching order.

Autonomy was our basis of working together despite differences on fine points of theology and local church practice. Each church operated as it chose by majority vote of the congregation. No entity other than the local church could tell anyone what to do. If someone did not wish to cooperate at the local level, there was little any Pastor could do to make them. On rare occasions a church might quietly invite someone to leave. It was unheard of to "church" a member---that is to hold a formal church conference with charges of offense worthy of forcing them out or censuring them for immoral conduct.

In old frontier days, Baptist churches served as a basis of social conduct and control. Absent formal law enforcement and courts, it was assumed a person "in good standing" at his Baptist church was a moral person. Churches held a monthly or quarterly Conference to deal with church business in a formal way. Any church which has old minutes to read shows a practice of calling any offensive member before the church to answer formal charges and be submitted to a vote over their membership. If they failed to show, then a committee of 3 men was sent out to meet with them and bring back a report as to whether they had violated the acceptable conduct as a member. Such actions ended with a formal vote to either kick them out or keep them.

One case I found at the Noonday Baptist Church (dates back to 1833) I pastored involved a lady accused of violating their church faith. She was interviewed by the committe of 3 which brought back this report: "Sister Smith has, indeed, lost her faith---she has become a Methodist!"

A church letter was the key to joining another congregation of Baptists. It stated that the person was "in good standing" with the church he was leaving. A "statement of good standing" was acceptable should the individual not have a formal letter of membership with them. Otherwise a person could join by "Profession of Faith" and be baptized into membership. In many churches the doors of the church were open only during the Revival Meeting in the Spring or Fall.

The deal was more social than theological. Pre-Sunday School literature, most churches just used the Bible as the basis for their faith and guidance. Without formal education, few Pastors or church members had much theological training. Many of the sermons and theologies were simply straight from the Pastor who was thought to be the expert interpreter. There was great suspicion in the average church of anyone "educated out of true faith." You just got your call / announced it to the church / got reviewed and ordained by the local church. A few times the local Association ordained ministers. There was no real requirement beyond being "called by God." The result was a wide range of conservative views on religion and the worst thing could be said against a minister was that he was liberal and ungodly as a result. If a church became crossed with its Pastor, he could be voted out. Many church had an "annual call" which meant each year the Pastor got a vote of confidence to stay or leave. Many Pastors stayed a year or 2 and moved around. The well-liked ones often came back 2-3 times over the years of ministry in the same area.

I hope this gives a good background of "Baptist in the South" approaches. Other parts of the country had slightly different practices. Up north there was more respect for formal education. In the South, rural churches tended to whoop and shout while, in the big cities like Atlanta or Charlston, they went so far as to have robed clergy, liturgy, even a split chancel. Most state conventions established some school for higher education. Mercer was for GA / Furman was for SC / Wake Forest was for NC in the 3 states I have served and lived.

[KeithE]

[Dave Roberts]

As I read USA Today, they say that the name won't change but churches can add the defining phrase, "Great Commission Baptists." Interesting, but I have no idea what that means down at Bear Swamp or Back Swamp Baptist Churches.

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Dahl]

This reminds me of when the General Baptist Convention of Texas made the informal name change to Texas Baptists. That still gives me the willies. As if we were the only Baptists in Texas!?

[Tim Bonney]

[Gene Scarborough]

Will there ever be a time Baptists aren't fussing and fighting about something RE-DICU-LUSS????

[William Thornton]

I ran across this especially insightful, witty, and brilliant piece on the name change: