Wade Burleson on Multiculturalism

[Haruo]

[Wade Burleson]

[Wade Burleson]

[Big Daddy Weaver]

Again, I think you meant something other than hijab. A hijab does not cover the face.

Your blog post statement implied a blanket ban on the hijab. You didn't mention security concerns at airports.

Of course women must not wear clothing that covers their face in some instances. See above my comments about the compelling state interest. There are instances when a compelling state interest would require that a piece of religious clothing covering the face be removed as you note. But your statement did not mention those instances.

[Sandy]

The wikipedia article, unlike your blog post, has a long list of documentation and references, which is why I posted it instead of a long list of references. Your blog post reads like a script from any one of half a dozen right wing political organizations which have been pushing the "pro-Muslim" accusation at President Obama since he first mentioned running for President. This has the paranoiac stink of Hagee or Robertson all over it. The music minister at my old church bought into this and pushed a lot of that stuff, most of which had no substantiation.

I'd be interested to see evidence regarding the curriculum of the charter schools that he operates in the US. Charter schools, like public schools, are supposed to be religiously neutral, and there's no way a "movement" could come out of such a small, fractional group of schools that would sweep through and be capable of "taking over" the US government. If the schools are teaching Islamic principles on the public's dime, it should be easy enough, through the legal system, to squash that pretty quickly.

[Stephen Fox]

At least she should be in this discussion.

Still I think the prevailing wind of Diarmaid MacCulloch's last 150 pages of his magnum opus that Strobe Talbott and I recommend trumps spiritually the musings of Burleson and Swain. OTOH heard a German Protestant at Furman five years ago bemoaning the frustrations with the Muslim community in Berlin and their failure to assimilate.

Charles Kimball is now in Burleson's vicinity. I think they should have lunch.

[Stephen Fox]

Here is hoping Wade can further define himself in light of these reports.

And after close read of these two sources, seriously, Wade, get in touch with Charles Kimball at OU and Have lunch.

http://www.npr.org/2011/08/09/139168699 ... hariah-law

Check the facts and guard against even the hint of fabrication as Robert Parham requests below.

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/anti-shariah ... -cms-17822

[Haruo]

Just so we can get these neopharisees to quit wearing yarmulkes...

[Sandy]

[Neil Heath]

[Gene Scarborough]

Either we follow the Constitution with respect to the freedom of religion or we don't. Sharia Law is from a civilization where there is no freedom of religion and no separation of government from religion. Its harshness and obsession probably bespeaks a cultural schizophrenia. I know that when those fundamentalist Muslims have wealth and take the yacht to the coast of France, they are filled with wine / women / and riotous living before they return home to their pretense!!!

The women play the same game. My wife owned a business next door to a lady of that pursuasion. Her business was that of a beauty solon. Siham had a new hairdresser in her 20's. She would come to work in the traditional garb----then remove it to reveal tight sweater and pants enhancing her most lovely curves.

It is all a game, but with attached control and hostility which can deprive women of their genitals and get them stoned if they go against it. I suspect that time will change it all in a free society----as long as we maintain our Constitutional freedoms put in place by wise founders of this free nation. It's not any more perfect than the people who inhabit it, but it's a significant improvement over the abuses of the Old World and Middle East.

[Haruo]

I am interested in seeing how the courts in Dearborn, Michigan are allowing sharia to overrule American legal principles. Wade, anyone? Specific cases. And how they've fared on appeal.

[Sandy]

The only sources saying that Sharia Law is being practiced in Dearborn, Michigan are the untrustworthy right wing sites, like Sharron Angle and the "I heard it on the radio so it must be true" crowd. The credible evidence doesn't support the claim. These are deliberate distortions.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1010/43451.html

[Haruo]

When they tell me I can't put a fish on my bumper, I'll say, who do you think you are, the Turkish Army?

[Haruo]

Seriously, so far all the stuff I've seen from Wade deals not with American politics but with Turkish politics. I am not sure how much weight to give the dire predictions about Turkey, but to the extent that we say "democracy" to describe a military dictatorship, perhaps we should not be surprised when the people turn out to have a low opinion of western democracy. The Turkish military establishment has been very determinedly secularist (which is not really to say democratic) since Atatürk's days, and perhaps women's rights will be one of the casualties. Or not. I am not clear that Islamic political religiosity necessarily looks like the Taliban. Islamic history certainly doesn't bear that out; Aisha led an army, remember, and so did queens of Yemen. The cloistering of wives is something the Muslims appear to have learned from the Byzantines. (According to some scholars, that is.) Many very progressive, freedom-minded Islamic women see as much value or more in veiling than in flaunting hair and face. (But my understanding is that while on Hajj women are not allowed to wear burqas.) When we talk about being Judeo-Christian, let's remember Solomon, let's ask ourselves how old Abishag was, and let's not forget how the UCC folks treated us Baptists (and the Quakers) when they were in power. That latter being right here in what's now the America Wade wants to preserve. Don't tell me Cotton Mather wasn't civilized!

[Haruo]

Mind you, I'm not at all in favor of sharia overwhelming our laws. I just don't see much (if any) evidence that most American Muslims, let alone any significant number of non-Muslim Americans, favor such a thing, and while I support Baptist defence of religious freedom for all, I'm not sure how it is advanced when the means involve curtailing the religious freedom of the Turks that Roger Williams (admittedly only talking about males in this context) said should be full participants in the secular state.

[Haruo]

In the America I came from, the Lone Ranger was a good guy, heck, even Zorro was a hero (though I'm not sure what his immigration status was). I can't see that if they'd been women they would have been any less heroic. It's not American culture that demands women bare their faces for security, it's security concerns (or at least it's alleged security concerns; I'll admit I'm not a great fan of airport screenings in general, facial or otherwise). I am quite sure that security forces in Islamic states are quite as empowered to view women's faces as ours are, the contrary tradition of their cultures notwithstanding.

[Haruo]

[Jim]

[Alan Carter]

So the Republicans do "cut and paste"? I guess the Democrats do "Call Pelosi and spend." I'm sure the Democrats view Muslims as potential Democrat votes so they will be sponsoring pro-Muslim legislation in the near future if they haven't already done so. Welcome to America.

[Gene Scarborough]

Alan---

Can't you be a little more realistic than this?

The troubles we have---which are growing rapidly with the reduction of bond ratings as well as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are not a time for political rhetoric and finger-pointing.

What is wrong with getting real / putting together constructive spending along with a fair tax for all / moving to quickly end this 4-year long fiasco. We need a cooperating Congress to begin to solve this!

This is as close to the Great Depression as anything in my lifetime from 1946. The title has changed from Recession to "The Great Recession." For me, as a small business owner, it has been 30% of earnings for the last 4 years---and NOTHING since July 4.

THAT IS DEPRESSION as far as I am personally concerned---and every small businessman I consult is in the same trouble! You can only hang on for so long with fingers and toenails bleeding. When you have trouble paying your light bill and can't afford $4-a-gallon diesel to even go and talk with potential customers, then maybe you will get a clue!!!!

[Alan Carter]

I already have a clue and it is cut the spending. The tax rate sure isn't "fair" since 10% of the people are paying well over 80% of the taxes in this country and 50% pay nothing. Since most people aren't open to more taxation, then someone needs to get real about cutting spending. Just cutting waste and corruption would do it for starters. And btw, I have trouble buying lightbulbs and paying for gasoline just like everyone else.

[Gene Scarborough]

I TOTALLY AGREE that spending cuts are necessary---along the lines of AT LEAST 30% immediately!!!

When we are ALL sharing in the reductions, it is hard to feel good about OIL, especially, paying NOTHING! Just as prices were lowering slightly on fuel, NC added another .10-a-gallon tax to it as of July 1. Hardly helpful in hard times!

[Sandy]

[Gene Scarborough]

Strong, Sandy---very strong and accurate to a "T."