Wade Burleson on Multiculturalism

[Big Daddy Weaver]

[Gene Scarborough]

Burleson is speaking of the need to recognize the prevailing culture which you are joining in an attempt to immigrate.

Let's face it, America is so diverse that there is no single America. We have a Northern America / Southern America / Mid-America / West coast America. Each of these is distinct in an of itself.

We grant special priviledges and grants to immigrants. They are smart enough to use them to the max and then invite a relative to take up the slack when their time ends. The example I know well is Tobacco Shops all over NC. When a new one opens up it is the same everywhere. They provide hookas and other paraphanalia which is obviously easily adapted for drug inhalation. They put a sign up which bespeaks "Thou shalt not use this for drugs," but it is obvious what the real usage is!!!

We have laws about drug usage. Just enforce them across the board. No new culture deserves special priviledges.

Another example is the Viet Namese immigrants who came to the fishing grounds of the Gulf around Biola Battery. I was there after Katrina and listened to the local fishermen who obeyed Wildlife and Game regulations so that their shrimping grounds did not go away. Their issue was that the Vietnamese would shrimp and oyster the grounds to extinction and the Wildlife Officers turned their heads. The Vietnamese had deserted their shrimp boats which had gone aground in the area. Heck, they had such a deal that they lost nothing in abandoning them!

Those local fishermen were livid in their observations about the abuse of what they had protected for years. I see no problem of immigrants adapting to the established language and culture they wish to now inhabit. The opportunites of the US are grand. They will quickly disappear if invading foreign cultures insist that established rules don't apply to them.

In Atlanta, where I grew up, there a whole sections with not a single English sign you can read. The push to displace the people who were there before them is another kind of invasion. At some point we need to say, "Our official language is English so learn it. Our official business practices encourage that you adapt to us. If you want to be an American, then leave your old culture behind and speak the language we speak. The opportunities offset what you had before so join us in the process. If you can adapt, then you are welcome. If you can't, then go back to where you came from and deal with what you had!"

[Sandy]

I think there's a line between the kind of "multiculturalism" that involves lifestyle issues, and that which involves the pursuit of American citizenship and everything that comes with that. The country has been shaped by the multiculturalism of those who have emigrated here over the years, in just about every way possible. I realize that, out in Oklahoma, it might not be as easy to identify the effects of multiculturalism on the local culture as it is in a place like New York or Chicago, but not everything that you encounter there has been brought about by the influence of Judao-Christian culture, either, though over the years they may be harder to identify. Eastern Oklahoma is the only place I've encountered things like cock-fighting rings and a barbeque known as a "hog fry", two elements of the local culture that you probably won't find on Manhattan's lower east side or midtown Chicago.

If you are seeking US citizenship, that's one thing. You take an oath to uphold the constitution and laws of the United States. I believe it is impossible to be loyally obedient to the provisions of the constitution, and submitted to Muslim Sharia Law. The two contain diametrically opposing principles. It is contradictory to accept principles which deny a whole list of basic human rights while at the same time agreeing to uphold those rights. Either you pursue citizenship, or you leave it alone and decide to live under sharia law. That's the same sort of thing the Mormons ran into when Utah sought statehood. Things which were core doctrines of Mormon theology, like polygamy, blood atonement (church administered death penalty), and the belief that anyone who was not Mormon was inferior in a similar manner to the Muslim belief about "infidels," were not compatible with constitutional law. The Mormons handled that in typical fashion by simply declaring that new revelation changed their views on these things. Easier said than done. That's why there are dozens of "fundamentalist" Mormon cults in existence today, and why Warren Jeffs is on trial in Texas for child molestation.

On the other hand, there's a lot of multiculturalism that is part of the fabric of America, brought here by generations of immigrants from whatever "old country" they came from. Wade's perspective might be a lot different if he'd grown up in Brooklyn or Manhattan or the Bronx, or Chicago's West End, or Lakeview, or Edgewater, or even a place like Squirrel Hill in Pittsburgh or Magnolia Park in Houston. The corner of Allen and Broome St. in New York is definitely in a neighborhood that is influenced by Judaeo culture, but there's not much Christian about the lower east side of Manhattan. And yet those people are American through and through, and have been for generations.

[Big Daddy Weaver]

[Big Daddy Weaver]

[Sandy]

[Gene Scarborough]

Big Daddy---

I think you are on target with your questions. Perhaps, Burleson has suffered too much from the heat of the summer or being out there in the "simple mid-west" of whites and Indians!

I grew up in Atlanta from the early 1950's before it ever reached the first million residents. It was an area of small crossroad towns with a major city at the hub. It was southern redneck with a mix of affluent people who lived in Paces Ferry and Buckhead. Coca Cola was a big hitter / the Georgia Crackers were the Class A baseball team / Sears had it SE headquarters there / a guy named Rollins had started an extermination company / railroads used it as a hub / the Atlanta airport was becoming a hub / no expressways yet crossed paths there / we had a symphony orchestra / some 5 colleges and Universities called it home.

In 2011 is has some 6 million people. It streatches across some 60 miles. Multiple corporations call it headquarters. It has the bussiest airport in the nation. It is a hodge-podge of cultural identity.

In my growing up days there was black and white Atlanta. Now there are Indians / Orientals / Koreans / Vietnamese / you name it. In old Doraville which had southern boys assembling GM autos you now have Korean signs lining the streets and it looks like a foreign country. In Clarkston where I grew up in a caution-light town with my graduating class of 63 you now have people from India and Pakistan talking gibberish at K-Mart and participating in a school which graduates mostly black and foreign students at 400-600 a year. There are parts of Atlanta where if you aren't black after dark, you better not be there. It's a constant hodge-podge of crime and cultural hatred with the southern rednecks moving farther and farther away from downtown. The roads are overcrowded at rush hour and the news is full of murder and mahem along with the fires/wrecks that make good video footage for ratings!

On the other hand, it is a wonderful place to meet the world without needing a passport or spending thousands on airplane tickets. A person who is open to new ideas and people is filled with delight over the vast choices in cuisine and culture. My University, Emory, has purposely decided to make 1/4 of its freshman class each year from foreign cultures. With the Jimmy Carter Center attached and the Communicable Disease Center, it deals with international issues rather than Southern culture. That is true adaptation to a world no longer separated by culture and location.

Personally, I like it except for the traffic and congestion I don't need. In Bath, NC, we have a few blacks and some Hispanics who work the fields, but you won't ever meet a Buddist or see anyone in their native garb. The white man took it all from the Native Americans who lined the shore and enjoyed the natural menu of a clean river and forrest full of game. Blackbeard found a home here so even pirates were welcome to Ye Olde Bath Towne.

Isn't it strange how we started with all kinds of cultures seeking a new land of freedom and---now---we bitch and moan that "the foreigners are taking over!"

[Ed Pettibone]

Sandy writes "Eastern Oklahoma is the only place I've encountered things like cock-fighting rings and a barbeque known as a "hog fry", ...

Ed: Sandy have you seen todays news? 18 arrested at Fairhope cockfight



Updated: Monday, 08 Aug 2011, 10:16 PM CDT
Published : Monday, 08 Aug 2011, 4:09 PM CDT

John Rogers
Photojournalist: Franz Barraza

FAIRHOPE, Ala. (WALA) - Fairhope Police broke up a cockfighting ring in their city Sunday, arresting 18 people. Twelve of them were illegal aliens.

Police said it was an elaborate operation. It was well-managed, complete with admission prices and alcohol sales. Police were unsure of how long it had been going on, but they found rooster ramains throughout the property.

Full story , 18 arrested at Fairhope cockfight http://www.fox10tv.com/dpp/news/local_n ... cock-fight.

Cock fighting is quite popular in parts of Fox's East Tennessee and it isn't difficult to find in Louisiana or Florida. I have even heard of it in the Lime Stone ares of southern Indiana, near Bedford.

And Sandy, I am not sure what Oklahoma hog fry is but I have had some great barbeque From a stand with a rolling Bar B-Q pit in front of a church in Manhattan And just last week Trudy and I spent a afternoon at the 7th annual Barbeque Cook off in Down town Troy, NY just upstream and across the Hudson from the State Capital in Albany. Trudy had pork but I prefer beef. They had 8 or nine competing contestants for the cook off and several outfits that had their portable pits fired up and where serving lines of folk with 50 to 75 in each line. And it has been a lot of years now bur I attended a similar event in Chicago. Those folk don't brag about their stock yards for nothing,

[Haruo]

We do allow the Mormons to practice blood atonement (at least in Utah). That's what the firing squad is all about. . And even the Methodists have religious courts. They've been used in the gay-marriage controversy within the UMC.

[Haruo]

As an American who proudly votes a Chinese ballot, I take exception to Wade's notion that English is "a better language". I don't think the imposition of English-only rules was good for the Indians (it certainly cut a generation off from the wisdom of its grandparents, much as what happened to many Scandinavians here in the Seattle area, or to my Scottish relatives who were caned for speaking Gaelic.

And a law against wearing a burqa in public simply puts the US government in the position of playing handmaiden to the Taliban, effectively requiring devout women to stay home.

[Wade Burleson]

[Gene Scarborough]

Today has weather reports of severe wind in Oklahoma City so it's not over yet. Hope Enid wasn't hit too hard. We need Wade's contrarian outlook to stay strong.

At my Emory Sociology course we read a book (I think it was "Protestant / Catholic / Jew") written in the 60's. It was looking at immigrants and their journey. It cited how the initial group wanted to keep their heritage and form communities which replicated their home values and ways.

Their children were obsessed with becoming totally American and getting away from their "silly" parents. They would even deny a connection to the homeland.

The third generation, then, was trying to find out all they could of the grandparents' ways and culture. They had an appreciation for it their parents denied.

I think it has to do with a sense of security and roots. I know it a natural child's question: "Where did we come from?" The Bible is based on such questions and the heritage the Jews valued and sometimes obsessed over. An Orthodox Jew would never consider the religious/social corruption of marrying outside his faith and culture. They see is as a violation of their relationship to God. In other words, God = Culture.

When we simply acknowledge our roots and are open to experience that of the new land or other cultures occupying it, we have a more normal approach to life and other people. None of us "has it all given uniquely to us from God, Himself." That kind or arrogance is the basis of "Divine Rights" of the white man to conquer and take the land from the "savages" we thought Native Americans were.

Frankly, if I had been on those first English ships coming from the Atlantic and crossing the Pamlico Sound then heading up the wide Pamlico River toward Bath, I suspect I would have taken a less arrogant route. Along the shore were bare-breasted maidens and women caring for the children and doing the harsh chores while the men hunted and fished all day. The women and children tended the small plots of corn and other foods being grown. The men enjoyed hunting and fishing and other good things their freedom brought them. They could bath to their heart's content and they certainly did not smell of ship and excrement from having to squat in the front rigging to do your business over the ocean rather than on the deck.

I think I would have looked over my shoulder and said, "See ya shipmates---they have a better idea!!!! I'm joining their tribe! I've had enough of this smelly ship and scurvy plus the food it rotten!"

[Alan Carter]

I'm headed to the doctor today because, alas, something must truly be wrong with me. I find myself agreeing with Wade Burleson!

[Wade Burleson]

[Bruce Gourley]

In the conversation about Sharia Law, let us not forget that Sharia Law mirrors Old Testament law in many ways, and even has roots in Mosaic (Old Testament) law. Many Christians today (I'm not talking about Wade here) think that our judicial system, legislative system and culture should reflect biblical moral values (typically Old Testament), yet get all upset about Sharia Law. In reality, neither biblical law nor Sharia Law should be a part of our legislative and judicial systems or define American culture, and to oppose one but advocate for the other is an indefensible position.

[Gene Scarborough]

The founding concept of Separation of Church and State is crucial for religious freedom. No one is free when others are forcing religion and certain religious activities rule over others.

That where our famous Baptist AUTONOMY comes to bear---and it is lost from the SBC these days!

No one should ever become an Indian just to enjoy nakedness. A true person of religious leaning overlooks things which offend his sensibilities and accepts the power of God to change evil things to good. No one ever won a convert by being abusive!!!

[Jim]

[Sandy]

[Sandy]

[Haruo]

[Wade Burleson]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Sandy]

[Wade Burleson]

[Big Daddy Weaver]